Chicago Remasters-SOS

I happen to have a copy of the gold CD of Chicago Transit Authority (Columbia CK 57186), and yes, it is fabulous.

I stumbled acros this in the used bins one day and almost passed it over because there was no indication on the outside that it was a gold disc. But the spine looked different than the version I already owned, so I openeed it up nad took a closer look. K-ching! Mine for $7.99! (Dontcha just love it when you stumble across a treasure like this?)

I'm curious though; the booklet makes no mention of it being re-mastered by Doug Sax, but it sure sounds like it was. Is this a fact?

On a side note, I was at an audio seminar about 10 years ago and Doug Sax was one of the speakers. He mentioned that he was in the process of working on the Pink Floyd box set, which immediately got my attention. He went on to say that he lucked out, and when it came time to re-master DSOTM, he found out that Alan Parsons was in LA, and was able to get him into the studio to help with the re-master. You can bet that I bought THAT set as soon as it came out.

Stephen

 

I just used the counter on the CD player display and used a musical cue as the starting point reference. It's not exact to the millisecond but...

Not if the tapes Gastwirt used was EQed or was no-noised a bit. I did notice a slight muffling of sound on the CBS CD. About the time Gastrwirt did his work, no-noise was gaining popularity.

Well, that's the thing, we DON't know exactly what it is. Yes, it could be my mix of terminology here. The assembled LP master is the absolute master, BUT they could have used the absolute MIXDOWN tapes to recreate a new absolute master. Again, we both could speculate on what happened. I just presented MY theory, and I do know what goes on in the master assembly process, thank you.

That is NOT clear, nor fact! Opinion is not fact. It is all a matter of OPINION as to what sounds "better".

 

See, you don't understand. The "absolute mixdown tapes" are edited together to form the LP master. It's not as if there's a separate reel that says "Questions 67 & 68 mixdown" which was copied and edited into the LP master - the mixdown masters for each song physically part of the LP master.

Someone would actually have to go out of their way to *remove* that segue.

Well, the following are facts:

1. The Rhino has compression that previous CDs don't have. Just about everyone here feels that compression detracts from the sound.

2. There is distortion during Introduction that isn't present on any other version. Once again, I don't think anyone here *likes* distortion.

3. The opening of Introduction has a tape glitch of some sort. This was NOT on the original LP, nor on the box or gold CDs. I'd say most people here would agree that tape glitches don't sound good.

4. The segue between Questions 67 & 68 and Listen is gone. It was there on the original LP, as well as the box and gold disc. Most people here would agree that it is "better" to stay true to the original LP when it comes to things like this.

You may have an "opinion" on the matter, but you cannot deny these blatant *facts*. What exactly do you feel is "better" about the Rhino CD, compared to the original LP, the CBS CD, the box set version, and the gold version?

 

OK Luke. You have all the answers. You know best. Whatever you say...

 

Overly compressed + EQ to the point of distortion = a trashed classic

Maybe not a fact for everyone, but I'd say it qualifies as a fact on this forum.

 

Facts are absolutes. Your assesment is not fact. If even ONE forum member does not agree with this it does NOT make it fact for this forun, either.

 

I know this is a fact:

Heavy-handed mastering has introduced distortion that has existed on no other release of this title, CD or vinyl.

 

As I've said, it is a fact that CTA is compressed and distorted. Maybe some people like that, but it doesn't change anything.

Do you like compression and distortion, Grant? Especially if neither is on the original recording?

 

I don't think it was heavy-handed by a long shot. Again, I can hear *some* limiting action, but that's basically it!

 

What about the distortion and the other problems mentioned? Do you not hear those, or feel they simply don't matter because you're not a huge fan of the album?

 

I would really like to see some comments from JEFF MAGID instead of just Lee Loughnane. If we had that, perhaps some of this would end.

 

I hear distortion in "Introduction" and "Beginnings"...and particularly in "Questions 67 & 68". It isn't on the original Columbia "360 Sound" pressing, the MFSL LP, or the Columbia MasterSound CD. With these releases as a frame of reference, it's quite easy to ascertain distortion is present.

 

Why, exactly? Nothing Jeff Magid could say could change what we hear on the CD. That distortion will still be there, regardless. That segue still won't be there. Etc.

I think the only thing he could say that would make some of this end would be "Sorry, guys, I screwed up. I'm going to be remastering this again correctly, and Rhino is going to use the new master for future pressings."

 

I would rather hear what Magid has to say.

 

Again, why, exactly?

That distortion is still there, no matter what Magid has to say. Do you not agree with this assessment?

 

You mean Magid's dead?

 

I don't think so. Can dead people introduce distortion on new remasters?

 

Jeff, ROTFLMAO!

 

OOP phase problems cannot be salvaged by any amount of EQ. Believe me - I've tried. You can get it it to sound good but not "clean." Badly recorded tracks cannot really be "fixed in the mix."

 

Jeez, this is still true. They are a bit fried, and I did notice "Introduction" in the 1st 12 seconds is noticeable immediately, and you don't have to concentrate to hear it, especially if you're used to the original Columbia CD.

Sorry fellas. Another set to stay away from, if at all possible.

True again, There's only one way to solve OOP problems, and the multi would have to exist with lots of time, money and hours invested. Possible also, that these factors would to diddly to improvement. You CANNOT solve OOP with EQ. You just make it sound like a shinier OOP.

 

First of all, as I've been saying all this time, it really isn't clear if the problem is OOP stuff or not. That seems to be nothing more than a theory that many people have clung to.

Second of all, have you tried to EQ II to make it sound better? I *have*. While not perfect, it can sound a lot better than what's on CD now.

 

Well, the quad mix sounds *very* different from the stereo mix, yet still a bit strange - just in a different way.

Trust me when I say what's on CD now is not the final word as to how that album can sound (even using the existing stereo mix).

 

All I meant to say was, remastering or reEQing put aside - OOP or not, I still think the individual tracks were recorded poorly (bad mic technique, equipment, who knows why?) and there's not much you can do about "that sound."

 

Well, yes, it is clear II is a "strange" recording. However, you *can* do something with it. You can't turn it into sonic gold, but you can make it sound a lot better than what's on the CDs today.

Contact me privately for "proof".