Choosing a new cartridge/stylus for my Pro-Ject X1

I'm on the upgrade path for my newly purchased Pro-Ject X1. It came bundled with a Pick-it S2 MM cartridge, which is a pimped up OEM version of the Ortofon 2M Red. I prefer a detailed, airy sound signature with good stereo separation and wide soundstage. My Pro-Ject Tube Box S2 is already quite warm and bass heavy, so I don't want a cartridge that emphasizes that. Not too fond of what people call "mellow" or "laid back". Hence, the Ortofon 2M range is a good fit I think.

The easiest and cheapest upgrade would be to fit a 2M Blue stylus on the S2 shell, since they are compatible (I checked with Ortofon), but I'm also considering moving up another step and buying the 2M Bronze cartridge. I've spent half a day listening to comparisons on Youtube on a decent pair of headphones, and I find it hard to motivate a purchase of the Bronze over the Blue. The Black, on the other hand, sounds absolutely amazing. And if I buy the Bronze, I could purchase the Black stylus later.

I am also considering the AT VM740ML or VM540ML, which both sounds quite similar to the 2M Bronze I think. I am unsure if it's possible to upgrade the stylus for those though?

Tough call. What would your recommendations be? The tonearm on the X1 is a carbon/alu sandwich construction with an effective mass of 10g. The current S2 cartridge weighs in at 7.2g. The rest of my system is nothing too fancy - a Rotel RA12 and B&W 606 speakers.

 

There is the Microline that comes standard on those two (same stylus), and Shibata and Special Line Contact stylus shapes, along with various elliptical and spherical shapes too ... whether any of them are an upgrade to the Microline is another topic ...

 

The Bronze and Black dont sound that different, Im surprised youre suggesting theres none between the Blue and Bronze when they actually change the interntals between them while the Black is the same as the Bronze with just a slightly different stylus. Personally I havnt heard them compared but I do like their neutral sound.

I would however recommend the VM540ML or 95ML as they have much better styli than either two and the frequency response is very even so you will get no more bass lean from the cart end.

Or if you want to go all the way a Nagaoka 500 that you later get retipped would be a quite good.

 

They are not in most any regard. the MLs are far superior.

 

Aren't the Audio Technica carts a bit problematic when combined with Pro- Ject tonearms, they're not ideally matched when it comes to the compliance, right?

 

The VM540/740 mentioned in the OP would be near ideal compliance for a 10g arm.

 

A 2M Bronze has a Western dynamic compliance of 22.

AT VM500/700 are roughly ~23 by Western standards.

Agreed with Davey, either should work fine on a 10g arm.

 

Thanks for all the replies so far. I am also considering the Goldring 1042 and Sumiko Moonstone. And possibly the Benz Micro MC Silver, if I want to take the MC path, but I'm unsure. Any thoughts of those vs the AT and Ortfoton cartridges?

 

If youre going MC be aware that you need a really good MC Phono stage as well, and that you need to rebuy the whole cart every 500 - 1000 hours or so.

I would just go AT. Its neutral and has the best stylus by far. Yes a 1000$ cart will likely sound better, but even then it might still not track as well.

 

I had a Goldring 1042 and didn't prefer it to a good AT with an ML stylus. Objectively and subjectively it was inferior. A properly set up AT ML is much better.

Sumiko is a poor value relative to what it costs. If it were me I would only bother with the top model (Amethyst?), and even then you can do better if you want an Excel OEM MM cart.

Not an MC guy but even if I was, I wouldn't be messing with a lower end model with an elliptical stylus. Better make sure your MC preamp system is up to snuff if going down the MC path also. FWIW AT does offer better value on the MC side if that is your thing.

 

For MC I was thinking of a high output cartridge, even though my RIAA (Pro-Ject Tube Box S2) supports low output MC as well. But the fact that the stylus is not replaceable is definitely a minus.

How would you compare the AT VM740ML to the Ortofon 2M Blue or Orange? What I really like about the 2M's is the sense of airyness and wide soundstage. I don't like too mellow carts that make me feel like i'm on sedatives or something . On the other hand, the Ortofon carts can feel slightly harsh in the high register at times.

 

You shouldnt get the 740. Its just heavier than the 540.

 

My current cartridge weighs 7.2 grams, that is exactly 0.8g more than the 540 and 0.8 less than the 740. I would expect both to fit nicely.

I like the looks of the 740 better and I would also have the possibility to try a shibata stylus should I ever want to.

 

Well, if you want to shell out 60£ more then go ahead.

 

I was on the verge of buying the VM740ML today, but when I called my local reseller, he claimed that it could sound a bit bright on my Pro-Ject and recommended the 2M Blue or Bronze instead. It sounds a bit stramge to me as I have heard people saying that the 2M's are bright in comparison...

 

At the end there is only one way to find out. I went from the Blue to the Bronze and might add a Bronze stylus to my collection later. Have sold my Blue. Definitely going to check out some other brands after this. So far i'm liking the Bronze and it's still breaking in.

 

I'd rather have an AT ML than any Ortofon 2M. Other people might think differently. They are totally different designs. The ATs are a true MM design with very tiny magnets mounted directly on the cantilever. The Ortofons are kind of a an odd duck induced magnet design, even though they are marketed as MM.

AT also uses styli from Namiki, including the MR/ML tip, which is not offered by Ortofon. I prefer this to any other stylus shape based on my own experiences. Other people might prefer the "fat", old style line contact that Ortofon gives you on the 2M Bronze.

Neither cart is going to be mellow or sleepy sounding with rolled off highs. Both carts are going to probably need different loading to sound their best. Part of the reason 2Ms can sound harsh is due to the unusually high output, which often measures higher than factory spec, depending on the specific sample.

If I really was in the market for an Ortofon, I might consider the older OM line over the 2M line. The FG tip on the OM40 is better than anything offered in the 2M line, for one.

 

Sounds to me like you like the Ortofon sound. So I say buy the one that you cam afford. Personally I don't like the 2M line, but it sounds like you just want a more refined sound with the 2M presentation.

A bronze or black stylus will work in the 2m red/blue body. Dimensionally they are the same with a minor difference inside the head. I can't remember exactly, but people certainly have done it with success.

 

I wouldn't do that. I think it's better to go for the full Bronze or Black cartridge.

 

Shouldnt be much break in on it.

 

As shown in the chart I posted above, the 540 and 740 use the same stylus assembly, and any of the stylus variations can be used on both the 500 and 700 bodies.