"Christmas Songs" (Columbia) by Sinatra (incl. 2019 HD release updates)*

Which CD version of the album "Christmas Songs", a collection of Christmas recordings Frank Sinatra made for Columbia in the 1040s, is the preferred choice for sonics on CD - 1994, 1999 or 2004?

 

The most recent (Sony BMG Special Marketing Reissue) has Unreleased alternates of at least almost all the tracks....I'd go with that rather than pick up a copy of the "Christmas Dreaming" re-issue that Columbia had out there before they'd pulled it for the current one..sonically more superior,too. Michael Boyce

 

That was true of Christmas Songs by Sinatra from Day 1. It was meant as a complement to Christmas Dreaming, which has now gone out of print, rather than a replacement for it.

 

Christmas Sinatra

The most up to date version of Christmas Songs By Sinatrahas a gold coloured border around the original album cover (2004 sounds about right). catalogue number is CK 92702.

The border ws put on to distinguish it from the earlier release and this 'bordered' version represents the best sound to date. I think these tracks were probably remastered via the Rockport turntable Sony now use. You cannot go wrong with any recent Sony legacy Sinatra because overseeing the production is Sinatra collector and expert Charles Granata. they are all first class productions. I wish someone would let him near the Capitol catalogue!

 

I've heard the newer (2004) one and agree, for a pleasant surprise the newest is absolutely the best.

Good gracious what a thought

Second to our Steve of course

Bless Charles Granata.

 

Naturally...

 

OT - any ideas when Sony starting using the Rockport for Sinatra?

Slightly OT, but does anyone know when Sony NY acquired and began making Sinatra transfers with their Rockport turntable? I'm pretty certain it was used by Chuck Granata for "The Essential Frank Sinatra with Tommy Dorsey" (2005) and the new "A Voice In Time" (2007) box set. Not sure if it was used for the 2003 "Voice of Frank Sinatra" and the "Sings Gershwin/Cole Porter" discs. I've also read on the Sinatra Family Forum that it may have been used as early as 1997 for "Portrait of Sinatra." Any ideas??

 

Resurrecting this thread for a moment because I need some clarification...

I have both the Christmas Dreaming CD from 1987 & the Christmas Songs By Sinatra CD from 1994. From what I read on the Sinatra Family Forum...I understand that while the decision was made to remaster Christmas Songs, Sony did not allow them to change the content in any way. All of the artwork is pretty much the same - except for the border & catalog #/barcode change.

But what I can't find the answer to is this: Why use alternate takes? Yes, I understand the fan appeal of alternates...but doesn't that mean that the original versions are basically OOP on a Sinatra Christmas collection? (I am assuming that the originals are at least still available on a Columbia box set...I hope.)

Are the versions of those songs on Christmas Dreaming the original takes?

From the booklet, I see that Cedar & No-Noise were used on the original release of Christmas Songs. What about the remaster? (Worth upgrading?)

Thanks!
Dexter

 

• Why use alternate takes?
  
  Two reasons: (1) Sonic quality. The metal or glass parts for some Columbia alternate takes are in much better shape for modern-day transfers, and the differences from the original master takes are usually minimal (if even perceptible to non-experts). (2) To provide collectors with tracks which have not appeared on past collections.
  
  Since you mention the Sinatra Family Forum, I'll direct you to the thread for The Columbia Years 1943-1952: The Complete Recordings 12-CD box set (aka the "Big Blue Box"). It's a very long thread, but in particular, read these posts:
  
  
  • What do I "need" in addition to the 12 CD Set? [post #23] (by Bernhard Vogel)
  • Clarification [post #35] (by Chuck Granata)
  • Alternate Takes [post #138] (by yours truly)
  • Producer's Note [post #153] (reproduced by moi)
  
  The last two posts are part of a lengthy discussion beginning here:
  
  
  • Sinatra boxed set Complete Columbia Recordings alt takes? [post #126]
  
  
• Are the versions of those songs on Christmas Dreaming the original takes?
  
  Not all. Examining the 11 tracks on Christmas Dreaming (and comparing with counterparts on Christmas Songs By Sinatra and/or in the Big Blue Box, if different):
  
  
  1. White Christmas (1947) - orig. take (NOT on CSBS)
  2. Santa Claus Is Comin' To Town - orig. take (alt. take on CSBS)
  3. Christmas Dreaming - alt. take (same on CSBS) (orig. take in BBB)
  4. Let It Snow! Let It Snow! Let It Snow! - orig. take
  5. Have Yourself A Merry Little Christmas - alt. take 2 (alt. take 1 on CSBS & BBB) (orig. take NOT on CD)
  6. White Christmas (1944) - orig. take (alt. take on CSBS)
  7. Jingle Bells - orig. take (alt. take on CSBS)
  8. It Came Upon A Midnight Clear - orig. take (alt. take on CSBS)
  9. O Little Town Of Bethlehem - orig. take
  10. Adeste Fidelis (O, Come All Ye Faithful) - orig. take
  11. Silent Night - orig. take (alt. take on CSBS)
  
  
• What about the remaster? (Worth upgrading?)
  
  Absolutely. The remastered CD (with the gold border on the cover) is a must have. The technology (e.g. the Rockport turntable) improved substantially in the ten years since the first (1994) CD issue. From this 2004 post:
  
  

Sorry for the verbose answer. I hope it's helpful.

 

One more point which I may not have made clear above: For those songs on Christmas Dreaming which are shown as "orig. take" in my list above, the version in the BBB is the same (in much improved sound). At the time the Christmas Songs By Sinatra CDs were issued (both 1994 and 2004), the BBB was still in print.

However, that is no longer the case. The BBB had an 11-year run, but it went OOP at the end of 2004. So your assumption is no longer true, unfortunately. Chuck Granata has stated that ALL of Sinatra's Columbia catalog has been remastered and is ready for a re-release if and when SONY decides to do another "complete" package.

 

Thanks Bob, very helpful, and I love verbose answers!

 

Thanks so much Bob! I really appreciate the detail, and the way you organize the information & present it. This thread's getting bookmarked!

Dexter

 

You're welcome, Dexter.

By the way, there appears to be a third variation of SONY's Christmas Songs By Sinatra CD out on store shelves this season. It has an "A" prefix and the back cover is different. It seems to be a budget version, but I haven't examined it personally.

 

I'll stop by Best Buy this weekend...and take a look. I'd prefer to have the genuine article.

BTW...my 1994 edition sports a white Columbia label on the disc. Did they retain that on the re-master?

Dexter

 

They changed the label. It's still white (with red printing), but it now includes the song titles. Also, the little Santa Claus cartoon at the top is gone, and there are additional logos and fine print (FBI Anti-Piracy Warning, etc.).

For the record: 1994 cat. # was CK 66413; 2004 remaster is CK 92702.

 

This variation has a new UPC(8 8697 11106 2 3)through Sony's Custom Marketing Group(the old Special Products). Amazon lists this as having a June,2007 release date. No gold border,but it has a 1994 copyright ,and an FBI warning. Does anybody know if the 2004 remastering is inside?
The local Borders store only has this version available,placed in a dump bin near,but not at, the regular Christmas product. Odd choice of titles in the budget assortment(Brooks & Dunn,Alabama's first Christmas album,Brian Wilson,even a restickered Jessica Simpson-they didn't need to make new copies for this turkey-,but RayConiff,for example, is in the regular section with a regular Sony UPC and a higher price. Not knocking Coniff,but wouldn't you assume that for MOR Christmas music,Sinatra would have greater sales potential than Coniff? Since the Sinatra is in the dump bin(and not alphabetized),a customer looking through the regular stock might assume that the Sinatra album is not in the store. The new Tony Bennett album is in the regular stock(deluxe and standard)along side Tony's "Snowfall"and one could assume that if you like Tony,young Frank is worth a try. Borders has a "if you like this,try this" display with their book merchandising,but seperates this merchandise because of the price point. And they wonder why music sales are down and they keep shrinking the department.

 

I'd imagine that they have it in the "dump bin" because it's the budget version...

 

I saw what I'll call the "budget bin version" of Christmas Songs By Sinatra in Best Buy this year - although not in a bin. It was in their rack of Christmas CDs & had a big "6.99" sticker on it. It carried the 1994 copyright - I have the '94 version & figured it was simply Sony (or a cutout company) trying to get rid of old stock.

Looking at Amazon, the album is listed 3 times:

1. The 1994 version & "Columbia" listed as the Label - marked as "discontinued": link
2. What looks like the 1994 version, but with a 2007 release date & "Sbme Special Mkts" listed as the Label - shown as being available thru Amazon normally: link
3. The 2004 version with the border around the booklet & "Sony" listed as the label - shown as "discontinued": link (When you look at the list of Amazon sellers, all offerings are Used, which makes you wonder if you would really get the 2004 re-mastered version. I guess I'll have to keep an eye out for this one in the stores next year.)

BTW, I also noticed that Amazon lists the 2004 Reprise Christmas Collection as "discontinued".

I have the 1994 edition of Frank's Reprise Christmas material. Back then it was called The Sinatra Christmas Album (not to be confused with the old Capitol collection of the same name.) I'm debating picking this up for the additional tracks. (How's it sound?)

Is it possible that the Reprise set & the Columbia re-master are shown as "discontinued" because they are Christmas CDs & won't be available again until next season?

Dexter

 

It's NOT discontinued. See here: www.sinatra.com/store/music/christmas-collection.

 

I've revived this thread because I'm as confused as ever about this release, "Christmas Songs By Sinatra" (Columbia/ Sony). As Christmas is approaching, I pulled this CD out and gave it a listen

I have this 15 track version, with the gold frame border on the front cover, listed on Amazon with a release date of 2004. "Essential Holiday Classics" is printed in the hinge area.

http://www.amazon.com/Christmas-Son...=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1259183897&sr=1-4

However, the most recent date on the CD packaging or the disc itself regarding the copyrights/ publishing rights/ release dates is 1994 not 2004. It does have the FBI ani-piracy warning on the back cover and on the disc, which I believe post-dates 1994. Inside of the booklet both the 'Cedar' and 'No Noise' processes are acknowledged.

The credits run as follows:
Executive Producer: Jerry Shulman
Producer: Deider C. Deutsch
Project Director: Charles Granata
Archival Restoriation and Mastering: Tom Ruff.

The sound is actually a bit underwheming, below what I usually expect and receive from re-issues under the Sony/ Legacy label - nothing that really "wows" me.

Was this disc remastered in 2004 or not?

Is this really the best sounding CD version of this material?

 

Not sure what you have, but those are the notes for the '94 disc. Not all the recordings on any of these releases are exactly audiophile material. I think the '94 sounds good - I haven't heard the newer one yet.

 

Thanks, as always, Bob.

So, to cut to the chase: if you have the "Big Blue Box" and the remastered "Christmas Songs By Sinatra," you have all Sinatra's Columbia Christmas material (every take and in optimal sound quality)? Right?

 

Almost. You will be missing two alt. takes of "Have Yourself A Merry Little Christmas." One has not appeared on CD, and you need the 1957 Columbia LP Christmas Dreaming (NOT the 1987 LP or CD) for that. The other is on the 1987 Columbia/CBS Christmas Dreaming LP and CD, but it is different than the one in both the BBB and the Christmas Songs By Sinatra CDs.

("Optimal" sound quality meaning the best that has been released officially to date, of course.)

 

Thank you!!

 

By the way, does the new "Christmas Songs By Sinatra" being sold on Amazon replicate the '94 or '04 version? The product details are:

Product Details
Audio CD (June 5, 2007)
Original Release Date: September 19, 1994
Number of Discs: 1
Label: Sbme Special Mkts.
ASIN: B000QUEQDG