Classe might be moving production to China

According to this post on the HT Guide, made in Canada Classe will soon be a thing of the past. It will be China in the near future.

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=38502

Thoughts?

 

Sign of the times....

 

I'm supposed to visit the Canadian factory this summer. I'll be happy to find out what the scoop is, if they will talk about it...

 

China isn't in the dark ages. While they do excel in "cheap" mass produced goods, they are also capable of top-quality product as well.

 

There's no real source to this rumor. And, they are already speculating McIntosh is made in China with Chinese tubes. Mc does not use Chinese tubes and all of their gear is made in the US, so I'd think this source is a little suspect.

Not to mention the major gloom and doom aspect of the posts.

 

IF that rumor was true, that would suck.

And how good that country is supposed to be at manufacturing is an issue waaaaaay down my personal priority list - I am much more concerned with what happens on THIS continent.

Anyway.....

We need to take care of our own people first, and sheesh, I hope no one brings up the rainbows-n-unicorns world that globalization is supposed to create for us.

 

What top-quality product are those?

 

How about all Apple products, including iPhone, MacBook Pro, and iPad, or even Quad?

Quality has virtually nothing to do with geography; it has everything to do with discipline of execution.

The Chinese are equally capable of discipline of execution, every bit as high as the Japanese, Koreans, or Germans.

 

I have no issues with products being made/assembled in China - as long as....

a) product is designed in Canada
b) product support is in Canada
c) strict Q/C during assembly

I'm assuming that all the parts used will be identical so I really don't care where it's made.

 

So that means products designed in the U.S., the U.K., Germany, or Switzerland are right out for you then?

BTW, products "designed with quality in" don't require "QC", that is, functional inspection. They only require "poke-yoke" practices during assembly and sampling in rational subgroups for the purposes of ensuring statistical process control.

 

Low cost support jobs replace decent paying manufacturing jobs and you think all is well? Maybe for you but not for the country. Not in the US, not in Canada.

 

I don't have a problem with goods being produced in China, but this situation is a bit different. A big part of Classe (or it used to be that way) was that their products were manufactured in Canada. At the prices they command ($9k for a prepro, $17,500 for the Omega Mono amp etc) - it should be a given that part of what you are paying for at those prices is the higher cost of labor that was necessary to produce them. By producing in China, those high labor costs are virtually eliminated. However, what will happen to the price of the gear? Will they still want $17.5k for an Omega mono amp and $9k for an SSP800? If there's one thing I know about hifi, prices don't come down. It's not like an intel chip or a videocard.

Lower cost gear like Rotel and the B&W 600 series, CM series speakers being assembled in China don't bother me, they are affordable (by 'phile standards). The argument can be that they can maintain their relatively low pricepoints that way. It's quality product all the way. But when you get into the territory of Classe, that's a different pricepoint and ballgame altogether. I'm not looking at this from a quality standpoint, QC can be implemented anywhere. It's strictly a pricing issue. It will be a tough road ahead if they think 'philes will drop that $17.5k on an amp built in China. Under $4k? Sure, but $17.5k is brand new automobile territory. That kind of shopper isn't looking at goods assembled in China. The labor market and wages there don't support that kind of msrp. Not saying it's right or wrong, but it is the reality.

Of course, the Classe move is speculation at this point. But it should be noted that that forum is almost always right with these type of things i.e. assembly of the 600 series & CM series moving to China, discontinuing of the B&W 700 series, rumors of the SSP-800 prepro, expanding line of the Classe Delta series amplifiers, diamond tweeter on the 805 speakers, B&W headphones, B&W zeppelin etc All those were posted initially there as "rumors" before anyone else knew. I think it may be a place where people in the know drop hints anonymously from time to time, because trolls are never that right on the money with that kind of consistency. Only time will tell I suppose. Take it for what it's worth.

 

Moving to China is unlikely for premium priced products. The economic situation is changing with a lower $ and £. Also labour costs are increasing in China. These facts together with logistical issues and ability to rapidly modify product and maintain the highest quality has resulted in a number of UK manufacturing (non hi-fi) companies moving production back to the UK. The future could mean hi-fi brands other than at the low end of the price range heading back to North America and Europe.

 

I agree with the two last posts. For such a high-priced brand, reputation is more important than the difference in manufacturing labor cost, so it would not make much sense to move production to China, as long as "Made in China" still has a negative connotation.

 

Let us hope Classe does not move production to China.

 

You are kidding right? You are trumpeting the build quality of Apple products?

Nothing special about the build quality of Quad either.

 

They are quite capable of, and certainly do, manufacturing top-quality products, but, without turning this into a political discussion, in some respects they are in the dark ages.

 

Agreed. It may have made sense to move production to China several years ago but not now. The Renminbi is increasing in value, wages are increasing by about 20% per year, inflation is growing and there is a shortage of factory workers. In addition, there is growing hostility and anger by the masses as a result of the extraordinary wealth of the few while most are experiencing an economic decline as a result of inflation. The crackdown by the government that is increasing daily is evidence of the growing hostilities and the Chinese will stand up and march.

I am sorry to say this but I hope all the so-called US companies which closed factories en masse in the USA and moved them to China will get bit in the ****. What goes around comes around.

 

If it is true, why is everybody always so shocked ? It's a fact of life. I have owned Classe and MAC all made here or Canada which is nice. The new Well Tempered line is (Amadeus and others) made in China, yet it is a hot item right now. When I bought my NAD Master Series M3 Integrated, I realized it was made in China, I made the decision to buy it, as it was what I wanted. I have had it 3 years, and I doubt you will find anybody to say anything about it's build quality. My Tetra speakers are made in Canada, and I do like that. But if you like a product and you trust the designer and company, and want it, it's built where it's built. My guess if you made a query, would be surprised how many items made by audio only companies have some items built in China.

I was possibly considering another Classe Integrated down the road, and unless Classe as a company goes down hill, I would probably buy it regardless of where they had it made.

 

Yeah, I am. Can you name a computer company with higher quality? One not made in China?

The build quality of Quad products is excellent. Same goes for Prima Luna.

 

As to Apple products, your argument seems to be that they are made in China and high quality, because all similar products are also made in China, and are of less quality. In effect, they are the least crappy of the like crap produced there. Okay, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are "high quality" by any means.

I have to disagree with you on Quad. The new stuff is not so good, not so well made, and very pricey. At least, the flagship model, which I have seen and heard qualifies amongst the speakers. Also, I don't think the electronics reek of outstanding build quality, performance, or reliability. Perhaps, much like Apple, the least crappy of the crap produced there. Premium junk, if you will.

 

How many of you have actually been to China? Spent weeks scoping manufacturing partners and assessing capabilities? I have. They do not lack in manufacturing ability. But they also have the cheap labor pool that enables American / Canadian / European manufacturers to make stuff *as cheaply as possible*. If you get something made in china that's junk.... blame the company that designed and speced it.

 

The point here is not if high quality products can be manufactured in China, but that a high end audio company, which sells products for $3000, $5000 and more doesn't need to manufacture them in a low-cost labour country, unlike an electronics firm which sells $100 Blu-ray players or $400 smartphones.

In that top price range, "Made in Canada" is a big selling point, so smaller manufacturing costs are not the only factor that the company has to take into account.

 

1. Depends what you are building. The Amish don't lack for manufacturing capabilities either, on some things.

2. Don't forget, your enlightening Chinese experience was essentially likely one big sales pitch, on their part.

3. Your last sentence is pretty damn funny. You may be in for a pretty large wake up call.

 

Luxman is moving manufacturing to China.