Classical Corner Classical Music Corner (thread #35)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by George P, Mar 17, 2012.

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  1. vanhooserd

    vanhooserd Senior Member

    Location:
    Nashville,TN
    London LDR 10013,released 5/80.recorded 10/22/79,Avery Fisher Hall,NYC.
    producer:Ray Minshull.engineers:James Lock & John Dunkerley.a decent
    performance,well-recorded,though the strings sound a bit shrill in places.
    in order to avoid a break in the middle of the 3d movement,they squeezed
    almost 29 minutes on side two.released on CD 3/83.sticker is original price
    at Discount Records-i paid 99 cents.
     

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  2. George P

    George P Way Down Now Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    It's a damn shame too, for those PC performances are supposed to be great and this would have been a cheap way to get them.
     
  3. john greenwood

    john greenwood Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Ov course the strings sound shrill - it was recorded at Avery Fisher Hall. :D
     
  4. WHitese

    WHitese Senior Member

    Location:
    North Bergen, NJ
  5. Collector Man

    Collector Man Well-Known Member

    When we think about it, who are these record companies actually marketing these box editions, to? Certainly not to the casual buyer that just wants some 'nice lolly pop classical music' in the background at perhaps their next dinner party. Serious collectors are their projected market - the people who generally make critical self appriasals on not just the performances, but the recording presentation as well.
    Regarding the Leinsdorf Prokofiev box and the reservations that have been expressed , I put forward a proposition of where part of the problem may lie. I could be completely wrong.
    I am old enough to remember some of the magazine reviews written about some of this Leinsdorf material when it was on full price first release -including the questioning of the sound presentation .

    The possible problem: This was still the days of vinyl., when elliptical stylii were very expensive and their use -still quite 'rare'. In Hi Fi magazines, their virtues were being extolled. Around that same time RCA controversially played around with 'Dynagroove'. A compensatory process method from RCA to alter the sound to enable sperical stylii to not only better negotiate the vinyl grooves correctly- but it was alleged "return a similar tracked and shaped signal wave form which an ellipical stylii was expected to do.
    I can still see in my head - RCA's advertisements and the claims they made , using ' before & after' musical wave form illustrations .

    The burning questions are :
    (1) Did RCA back then in those days, first alter the sound for their 'Dynagroove process' back at the master tape stage: long before doing any fancy style master cutting for the later stampers and final sold pressings?

    Taking on such a task back in the late 60's without the computer technology of today, it would strongly appear that is where, it took place.
    (2)
    A. Then if that was really so as can possibly be suspected, at this stage withour actually knowing the truth : what did then happen to those altered master tapes?

    B. Did 'Dynagroove process' analogue master tapes lay around?

    C Did some of this material have an 'altered inception' birth history ...was that point, forgotten about over the following decades?

    D If so, were such master tapes later picked up off the storage shelves and unknowingly simply digitialised, with the view of being presented on CD?

    E How could one ever possibly re-correct master tape sonic presentation if you had an original master tape to start with -later digitalised - which in the past, had been irrepairably tinkered with. Meant for the technical shortcomings -that of 'vinyl tracking' ? Something, now non-existent with the CD medium
    [
    Has anyone else got thoughts or other ideas, on the possible theories, I have just put forward?
     
  6. e630940

    e630940 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Canada
    I have sampled a couple more of the Sony/RCA ' Masters ' boxes for sound :

    Mozart/ Guarneri - quite good
    Wagner/Der Ring & - okay (a little 'closed in' perhaps)
     
  7. WHitese

    WHitese Senior Member

    Location:
    North Bergen, NJ
    This is a very nice CD..quite calming.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. john greenwood

    john greenwood Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    I have this set lute, not theorbe. Includes transcriptions of the 6 cello suites and the sonatas and partitas for violin.
     

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  9. Tangledupinblue

    Tangledupinblue Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    Right now I'm playing this as a random pick from my list of artists (201 of them altogether) - got this as a freebie with BBC Music Magazine. The Dvorak is a fine work, if somewhat ripped off from Brahms and Beethoven (Brahms' 2nd is all over the outer movements, and the first's links with the Eroica are obvious):

    [​IMG]

    I haven't played this disc often, but I seem to recall that the Novak is a rather lovely work and ought to be better known.
     
  10. Collector Man

    Collector Man Well-Known Member

    When the RCA/Sony Leopold Stokowski box is released, I would be interested to see comments about some of the musical selections. I once had a RCA Victola Stokowski vinyl that had one of the items, included :The 'Shepard boy on watch' scene from Wagner's Tristan & Isolde Act 3. At that time , I used to listen to it sometimes through headphones. Somewhere off in the distance outside the recording venue, you could just detect and pick up - ever so quiet- cars on a wet nearby freeway or road. I love just now and again, to hear little examples or evidence that recordings back then , were not always made and fossilised in some 100% sterile clinic.

    Regarding Erich Leinsdorf, he was a grossly under-rated conductor when he was alive. if people want to hear him in proper full flight glory and eye-opening sound, try the low price re-issue of the complete opera Strauss' Salome with Monsarret Caballe' , now on Sony Opera House series. Glorious 'Decca-like' wrap -around pin -point location sound. Waltamstowe Town Hall ( An RCA 1968 release)
    Or get one's hands on the Decca reissued (originally from RCA) 1962 complete Wagner Die Walkure with Birgit Nilsson &Jon Vickers- which I assume, maybe will turn up again ...through a new Sony/RCA issue. Just taking Leinsdorf's The Ride of the Valkyries on that recording as an simple example of his expertise, it is absolutely stunning. Full of air and space around the music to conjure up :
    ' flight'. Again, that Walkure recording was made in the same Walthamstow recording venue. You are THERE!
     
  11. vanhooserd

    vanhooserd Senior Member

    Location:
    Nashville,TN
    it seems that once those RCA recordings made by Decca reverted to Decca
    for reissue,they stayed with Decca.the Leinsdorf 'Walkure' was reissued in 2002.
    i have the Sowkowski box on order from Amazon.it has been delayed,which i guess makes sense if it hasn't been released yet.i bought the two RCA/Sony
    Munch boxes to get the few performances i didn't already have,but haven't
    played them yet-too busy concentrating on my LPs.
     
  12. Collector Man

    Collector Man Well-Known Member

    I have since checked and there is an full article about RCA's early 60's experiment with Dynagroove on Wikipedia. Just punch in "RCA Dynagroove'...and there is also a representrative list of recordings they used it on.
     
  13. Collector Man

    Collector Man Well-Known Member

    The 2002 Decca re release of Leinsdorf's Walkure is the one I have.
     
  14. ShallowMemory

    ShallowMemory Classical Princess

    Location:
    GB
    I have mixed feelings over OBI. It's true the bass is more prominent which is usually a good thing but a number I tried had sterility I really didn't like so I usually look for older masterings if available. Comparing the Kubrick Dvorak symphonies to 8&9 in "Originals" I preferred the original mastering for openness
    On the other hand you can't fault the Fricsay Bartok Piano concertos Originals title (447 399-2) for sound (I adore the playing!).
    I just don't think you can add what was deliberately missed off, consistently and all re-masterings need to critically listened to before coming out.
     
  15. ShallowMemory

    ShallowMemory Classical Princess

    Location:
    GB
    Playing:
    Schoenberg; Five Pieces for orchestra, Webern Five Pieces for orchestra, Berg Three pieces for orchestra and finally Bergs lulu suites
    LSO Dorati
    Mercury 432 006-2
    That scream toward the end of "Lulu" gets to you!

    Prokofiev:
    The Love of Three Oranges -suite
    Symphonies 1 &&
    Philharmonia Orchestra cond. Malko.
    Classics for pleasure CD CFP 4523
    This might be the best No1 ever and also the first EMI stereo classical session from 1955 but the playing is such you'll all want to get this which is available in a new version coupled with the Nutcracker suite.

    Hanson:
    Symphony No 3, Elegy and Lament For Beuwolf
    Eastman-Rochester Orchestra cond by Hanson himself.
    Mercury 434 302-2
    Essential stuff here with amazing recording quality for its time.

    Bernstein:
    Symphony No1 & 2, Three Dance episodes from "On The Town"
    NYPO Entremont on piano with Lenny conducting.
    From the Bernstein plays Bernstein Sony/Bmg "masters series" box that sounds very good.
     
  16. drh

    drh Talking Machine

    Happy Bach's birthday, everybody!:wave:
     
  17. canzld

    canzld Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Guess last nights vinyl was a good commemoration then -well first one anyway. The second because I was hovering around Chopin on the shelves after the Berceuse blind comparison.
     

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  18. John S

    John S Forum Resident

    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    in the head and in the heart ...

    Really...in that case:

    Johann Sebastian Bach
    Goldberg Variations, BWV 988
    Fugue in F-sharp minor, BWV 883
    Fugue in E, BWV 878
    Studio Outakes from the 1955 Goldberg Variations recording session


    Glenn Gould, piano

    [​IMG]
     
  19. canzld

    canzld Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    I'm not sure Bach would recognise those versions :D - certainly not the later Goldberg
     
  20. dale 88

    dale 88 Errand Boy for Rhythm

    Location:
    west of sun valley
    I listened to my new acquisition of Bach's St. Matthew Passion by Suzuki and the Bach Collegium Japan. Even though I have Herreweghe's version, I am very very glad to have this Suzuki version.

    SuzukiMatthausPassion.jpg
     
  21. Show and Tell Time

    How many SHMF thread No. 35 members are familiar with this ARSC Journal: Volume 40, No. 1 Spring 2009

    Association for Recorded Sound Collections

    The ARSC Journal contains: Original Articles, ARSC Conference Papers, Book Reviews, and Sound Recording Reviews.

    The two Columbia record labels are taken from an article written by Gary A. Galo: "The Columbia Lp Equalization Curve"

    Example:

    "After the Golden Age; Romantic Pianism and Modern Performances": by Kenneth Hamilton. New York: Oxford University Press, 2008. 304 pp (hard cover) Figures and Musical Examples, Index ISBN 9870-019-517826-5 $29.95

    "It is an illuminating, refreshing, and entertaining book, providing the reader with a fascinating historical panorama of piano performances from Liszt to Paderewski. Hamilton is a Scottish pianist and writer who is currently serving as a member of the music department at the University of Birmingham (UK). In the books Preface Hamilton describes attending a recital by an unnamed (yet "internationally lauded") pianist who performed four Beethoven sonatas with "all the spontaneity of a tenth take in the recording studio", adding that it was all a "miserable experience". :Quote.
     

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  22. WorldB3

    WorldB3 Forum Resident

    Location:
    On the continent.
    NP: Walter Gieseking - Debussy 12 Preludes Book 2. 70's Angel vinyl.
    My first Gieseking, where next?
     
  23. vanhooserd

    vanhooserd Senior Member

    Location:
    Nashville,TN
    some unorthodox Bach for Bach's birthday.this combines fairly straight Bach
    with improvised/Lewis-composed variations.partly solo,with discrete bass,
    rhythm guitar,violin & viola here & there.i read a NYT review putting this
    down as easy-listening Bach,but i found it really enjoyable,though i can see
    how it might disappoint both classical & jazz purists.Philips 824 381-1,from
    1985.produced by John Lewis & Kiyoshi Koyama.recording supervision:E.Alan
    Silver.engineering supervision:Marc J. Aubort/Tom Lazarus.recorded 1/84 &
    9/84,Rutgers Church,NYC.
     

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  24. vanhooserd

    vanhooserd Senior Member

    Location:
    Nashville,TN
    two recordings of Partita No. 5,BWV 828.the Arrau was recorded in 1991,the
    year Arrau died at 88.the Ashkenazy was done in 2009.good piano sound &
    polished playing on both,but Ashkenazy doesn't do much for me.he is considerably faster in every movement,too much so for me.i'm glad the
    Ashkenazy belongs to the public library.i got the Arrau box in 2005:10 CDs for $30.
     

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  25. George P

    George P Way Down Now Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
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