Classical Corner Classical Music Corner

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by George P, May 29, 2015.

  1. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    I have been under the impression that MOT usually used the original 78RPM recording to begin his project ...
     
  2. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    He is still active over there.

    I have a lot of his work, but never knew him to work with other people or use other people's transfers.
     
  3. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    :agree: If MOT 's starting point for each project is always some original 78RPM recording, I do not see how he would ever need other people's transfer ...
     
  4. J.A.W.

    J.A.W. Music Addict

    It's not that it hasn't been done before at Naxos. I wonder who manipulated the Toscanini transfers/masterings Richard Caniell did for Naxos in the 1990s. I'm told Mr Caniell was disgusted with the outcome and broke off all contacts with the label.
     
  5. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    I do not have any Toscanini CD's on Naxos Historical since I am not a fan of Toscanini ...
     
  6. J.A.W.

    J.A.W. Music Addict

    OK, but that's not the point. I was just saying that manipulating masterings done by others allegedly has been done before at Naxos.
     
    crispi likes this.
  7. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    I have also heard that the much adored Annie Fischer's Beethoven Piano Sonatas is made up of many cut and pastes. Perhaps the ends justify the means ...
     
  8. J.A.W.

    J.A.W. Music Addict

    True, but I understand that some of those alterations were made because she wasn't happy with the originals. Apparently they continued doing so after her death.
     
  9. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    :( For the purists in some of us, that was bad news ...
     
  10. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    In this case, they do, for that remains my favorite set and I have never heard any evidence of the cut/pasting in the performances.
     
  11. J.A.W.

    J.A.W. Music Addict

    I must admit that her Hungaroton Beethoven Sonatas cycle didn't appeal to me at all when I first heard it, but it grew on me, though I still have mixed feelings about it.
     
  12. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    Cuts and pastes in recorded music in the digital domain are very simple and may become much more prevalent down the road ...
     
  13. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    I'm copy and pasting this from Immortal's site:

    Best sound over all previous editions. Extensive notes and broadcast commentary and ovations.

    From the Recording Notes by Richard Caniell: This 1941 broadcast of the Sixth Symphony and Piano Concerto was released by us through Naxos, but they omitted the Voyevoda and the commentary without our knowledge or permission, and the sound was denigrated in a loss of overtones, in some sound compression of the tuttis and in a thickening of the bottom end, hence this release of the complete concert.

    Our original tape of this broadcast from Gardner revealed the transfer from the lacquers to be good, the surface noise sporadic and not excessive and the dynamics needing only a little emphasis to reverse the leveling which the original broadcast engineers imparted to the sound transmission. Its many pitch problems were solved by the young conductor John Sullivan, who is our music consultant. We believe the All-Tchaikovsky Benefit Concert to be a worthy addition to our knowledge of Toscanini’s involvement with these works and represented the first occasion when Horowitz and Toscanini collaborated in the First Piano Concerto.

    ======================

    The lack of high frequency energy is readily apparent on the Naxos CD I pictured above. As far as I can see on Naxos Historical website the CD I pictured is the only release they have done for the 1941 Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto 1 with Horowitz/Toscanini.

    You can see this Youtube video of the first movement:



    The Naxos CD lacks any of that brilliance in the upper registers.
     
    J.A.W. likes this.
  14. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    Speaking of Toscanini/Horowitz's Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto No. 1, I have the following CD ...

    [​IMG]

    I wonder how many times did the duo perform this concerto?
     
    vanhooserd likes this.
  15. scompton

    scompton Forum Resident

    Location:
    Arlington, VA
    • Debussy piano music, especially the Images and the Estampes
    • Reich's Mallet Quartet
    • A lot of the minimalist piano music performed by Jerone van Veen on Brilliant Classics
    • Late Morton Feldman
    • Vivaldi concertos
     
    George P likes this.
  16. J.A.W.

    J.A.W. Music Addict

    According to the Naxos site Mark Obert-Thorn did the sound restoration of the Piano Concerto; judging by the above quote he used the Immortal Performances tape, so apparently he did not use only 78s for his transfers/remasterings.
     
  17. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    Thanks for that!
     
  18. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    They are already (and have been) very prevalent.
     
  19. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    This is how DG has been able to keep churning out newly improved remastered recordings ... :agree:
     
  20. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    Van Cliburn, Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto 1, sorry if this offends anyone I still find this a highly over rated performance, just lackadaisical all around. I have been in a Tchaikovsky PC1 mood so digging out old discs to see if I changed my opinion on any. Certainly not this. And now Gilels with Maazel, which is a very close second to Richter/Karajan. Unfortunately my 2-fer reissue CD on EMI uses generic art with a forest and not the original LP art below:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Eigenvector likes this.
  21. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    I agree that Cliburn performance is overrated. In fact, I would say all of this concerto recordings are overrated.
     
    hvbias likes this.
  22. 6138

    6138 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Miami, USA
    For me is mostly vocal and choral works, Renaissance Polyphony; Huelgas Ensemble, Tallis, Palestrina, etc
    It may be a contradiction, but even Requiems, Cantatas and Masses are soothing for me.
     
  23. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    I'll great recommendations. I've been meaning to get back to my Renaissance CDs.
     
    6138 likes this.
  24. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    Afterward I actually went to Amazon reviews to see if anyone I recognized reviewed it and just saw a bunch of generic reviews. A shame since the recording quality is nice and the remastering by Sound Mirror is wonderful. The way the horns limp in to start the first movement sets the stage for the rest of the work and it never really gets much better :(
     
  25. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    Byron Janis is way better IMO ...
     
    George P likes this.

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