Cleaning records: Demineralized water or distilled water?

I do that Rob. I use Mofi anti static sleeves. However, I have been using the sleeves that come with nice pressings that are have nice plastic in them. For instance Neil Young's recent box set or The Beatles Mono. Is that OK in your opinion, or do you even change those out as a matter of policy?

By the way, I have to do some actual work now. So if anyone responds and I do not, please do not think I'm being rude. I will be back later today. Thanks again, everyone. Very good thread.

 

Don't know anything about premier, would probably error toward the side of caution and avoid it. What is it? Just compressed air?

Personally don't care much for either MoFi or VPI cleaner, I like Disc Doctor and AI Audio Intelligent cleaning solutions.

 

Sure, I just find that (just) paper sleeves are huge dust envelopes!

 

I just replace all of mine with MOFI sleeves. They are cheap enough to buy. I DO save the "better" inner sleeves that come in some new LPs. I use them for Salvation Army finds such as Christmas albums and what-not.

 

A cheaper version of the same thing, Chad's QRP Acoustic Sounds inner sleeves!!!
Get together with friends and split on a bigger quantity, even cheaper!

http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/78065/-Rice_Paper_Sleeve_with_QRP_logo-Record_Supplies

 

This is a good discussion. I bought a VPI 16.5 with all MoFi fluids in a package from Musicdirect. I have not used the VPI cleaner that came with the machine. May I ask why you prefer the Disc Doctor or AI fluids? Is there a reason to avoid the MoFi?

 

Distilled water here. That's also the only water I drink.

 

"One thing I do is to stop the vacuum right before the rotation of the turntable makes two passes. I learned this from a guy who made a youtube video as a way to avoid static buildup. I wonder if I am being overly concerned by that."

I've never gotten static buildup form my VPI and I let it run for two revolutions AFTER I see liquid stop being pulled up.

If you do get static you can always cut back. But why not use the vacuum as much as you can? It's the only reason to use a RCM really.

I'd rather get as much liquid vacuumed up then worry about something that "might" happen.


And to repeat above. Rinse, rinse, rinse.

 

Sure, I believe the whole washing exercise is intended to agitate and loosen up impurities whether they are solids or oil based finger prints, etc. So, short of a very expensive ultrasonic (machine) action, liberal amounts of fluid with a mild surfactant, is the best way to unbind these contaminants and draw them away from the grooves. Disc Doctor has been around for a long time and the creator of this solution actually has a chemical engineering degree. It suds's up and removes oily finger prints well. Ever notice how some cleaning solutions bead up and don't seem to go down in the grooves for a deep cleaning action? Many of these solutions lack the proper surfactant agent that breaks the beading nature of liquids like water. Above all, it appears to be safe (see Justin_time comments) and I find it rinses clean from the vinyl record with water. AI is fairly new to my regiment, with the Enzymatic Formula and Super Cleaner Formula (the later, which including a modest amount of alcohol), offer a bit of a different approach than Disc Doctor and support a multi-pronged approach in getting the dirt job done right. My experience shows me that no single cleaning formula seems to be the answer. That said, I like the way AI's enzymatic formula removes organic things like mold in really old record. Their super formulas addition of alcohol gets oils and greasy stuff out extremely well and leaves a piano gloss shine. All of these formulas seem to reduce the noise floor considerably, and it often takes a combination of different formula cleanings to do the trick.

But keeping on topic with this thread, pure water used liberally and with multiple rinses is the single most overlooked and under executed step in the process of a good vinyl record cleaning regiment IMHO. It's cheap, it's easy, why not be liberal with it?

 

I haven't found that to be the case. A paper sleeve in good condition should not be (or become) a dust envelope. If thats the case the owner is doing something to cause it. I clean all my paper sleeves by tipping them upside down and tapping / blowing air into them. Although I generally use and prefer to use audiophile sleeves especially with scarcer and 'NM' records.

One problem with audiophile sleeves is their tendency to 'cling' to the clean vinyl surface as the record is being removed/inserted. As static attracts dust particulates to the record surface while its out of the sleeve, putting it back in the sleeve after use should be done so the record surfaces are not sliding against the sleeve surfaces. This should be done whether the storage sleeve is paper, polypropylene or whatever.

It may be kind of fussy but one can get a method down for putting the LP back in a sleeve so that the only surfaces 'contacting' during the sliding is the vinyl rim.

Ditto.

 

Thanks! I had only used the MoFi Super Deep Clean and the Super Record Wash and found that neither removed old fingerprints easily (if at all). I recently purchased the MoFi Plus Enzyme cleaner and Pure Record Rinse (which I believe from the description is just highly purified water), but I haven't yet tried them. Any experience with these?

 

I think Fremer has referred to this stuff you might check his columns on Analog Planet. My suspicion is he uses it for the really grungy stuff but follows it with a conventional cleaning. Never used it myself.

 

MoFi yes I have tried it a few times, not my cup of tea either. Notice how it beads up? My recommended ones don't. Haven't used MoFi's enzymatic but, I wouldn't be without AI's! Let us know how it performs. Again, I just can't can't see buying expensive rinse water. Maybe someday someone will impress me with further knowledge and experience to change my mind, but until then, steam distilled or RO is fine by me. And again, rinse, rinse, rinse.

 

A bit of white bathroom tissue wetted with isopropyl alcohol should clear those. Body oil is water soluble, but fingerprints may or may not be just body oil + dirt. I've dealt with fingerprints that didn't clean off; it becoming apparent someone was touching some substance before touching the record without cleaning their hands first. There are glues, adhesives, caustics, synthetic oils, etc. that water, soap, & iso alcohol just can't remove.

 

Good point.

 

I'm hoping to get some time this weekend to clean my recent purchases. I'll report back on the MoFi Plus enzymatic. Maybe I overpaid for the "rinse" but I figured one bottle is worth a try. I've seen in other posts where people have plugged Aquafina. I had been using distilled water from the supermarket (Poland Spring maybe?). Either way, I think I wasn't doing enough rinsing.

 

So informative,
so excessive (perhaps),
so appreciated (definitely).
I have never seen any single article so comprehensive or so needed as common knowledge of the (not so common) Vinylphile!
(with exception of Justin's offerings)

Zen and the Art of Record Cleaning Made Difficult
By Michael Wayne

http://www.analogplanet.com/content/most-comprehensive-record-cleaning-article-ever-0

This was on Michael Fremer's Tracking Angle a zillion years ago, and now can be found on Analog Planet.
It is intense and possibly helpful. You decide, enjoy.

PS: From previous recommendations and conversations I thought you may like to know,

Duane Goldman (the Disc Doctor) was an Organic Chemist and has a PHD in Medicinal Chemistry and a Masters in Organic Chemistry.

 

Distilled water only on final rinse for me.

 

How are you guys doing the final rinse? Just squirt, velvet pad and vacuum type deal?

 

I use Perrier water

 

...because you like the bubbles?

 

No, it is not compressed air. It is a solution that is heavier than water and when you apply it to the surface of the record you can see the dust coming right out of the grooves and the dust floats.

Supposedly it brings out or enhances the oil in the vinyl. What that means, Rob, I haven't a clue. Michael Fremmer endorses it as well. Maybe I should try dropping him a line.

Here is how I have used it. And again, I have no idea if it is correct. I would spray it on the record and use the VPI bristle type brush. Like I said before, you could just see that dust come out of the grooves. The record got an incredible shine too. Then I would apply a round of Mofi Super Deep Cleaner or regular Mofi.

At the time I wasn't rinsing with distilled water.

My biggest concern was that I may be undoing what I might have been gaining by using the Premier by using other solutions and vacuuming after applying it. And that stuff is $30 per can. I did post some copy on the product above, but even after reading it this stuff remains a mystery to me.

By the way, I went through and cleaned a bunch of records again and rinsed with distilled water. You guys are really right about the necessity of this step. The results have been tremendous.

I also found a better table to work on and sit down which has made things a lot easier and has also contributed to more patience and peace of mind. Easier to drain and no more standing in a tight corner.

 

I have gotten static before, but it was nothing I couldn't deal with.

You are right though. Why should I deny myself the full use of the vacuum?

That just goes to show how over worrying and overthinking can lead to diminished results. And this is why these discussions are so valuable to me.

 

A

According to some quick research (I am in flight right now), it is essentially a solvent that is based on DuPont's Vertrel CF, and was touted by its manufacturer as ideal for removing so-called 'mold release' compounds, a subject that itself has spawned some interesting threads here. Bottom line, I'm not sure I'd just spray and wipe off, even if it evaporates; I'd want to give the record a thorough cleaning afterward; by all means write to Fremer and get his take. Is it still made? I know the company that offers it is a large industrial supplier of all kinds of fun chemicals!

 

If I believed there's such thing as ¨a mold release compound¨ you had to remove from new, sealed lps, I would stop buying them for good !!!