Close to giving up (Buzz/Hum problem)

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by dastinger, Feb 21, 2018.

  1. dastinger

    dastinger Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portugal
    @Al402

    Thank you! I guess that, if I end up going that path, I'll spend a few € on a complete rewiring. I have a friend who has a ton of experience with this kind of thing and I'm sure he's capable of doing a good job. I'll void the warranty in the process, but I'm getting sick of this.
     
    Mr Bass likes this.
  2. Mintsauce

    Mintsauce Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hertfordshire UK
    Without trying to steer you to another forum, have you tried posting on pink fish media, as Paul Darwin of Rega is pretty responsive on there. He might just say contact your local dealer though. Just a thought.
     
    myles, dastinger and Strat-Mangler like this.
  3. KT88

    KT88 Forum Resident

    A rewire of the arm would be fruitless and expensive. Your statement above proves that the arm is grounded.
    -Bill
     
  4. KT88

    KT88 Forum Resident

    That's not a 50hz or even a 100hz harmonic of a ground issue. You have EMI issues at your home. Have you removed the computer and your cell phone from the room the stereo is in?
    -Bill
     
  5. dastinger

    dastinger Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portugal
    Hey! Thanks a lot for the suggestion. I'll probably post on that forum and see if the Rega's rep replies.

    How would a rewire be fruitless if any other turntable with an external ground wire has no buzz? The tonearm is grounded, but the way it is discharged is probably not effective enough. The fact that I can reduce the buzz to less than 50% of what it originally was by running speaker wire from the receiver's chassis to the ground prong on an outlet shows that an external ground wire would probably be way more effective. At the shop it doesn't buzz because they probably have some type of filtering in the mains.

    I don't always have my laptop in there, so the only thing left to remove is the cell phone. I can try that. Thanks!
     
  6. stereoguy

    stereoguy The King Of Stereo Mixing

    Location:
    Brooklyn
    I'm not sure if anyone has suggested that you simply try a different cartridge. I had a Denon DL 103 in my Rega RP 1 at one time and it drove me crazy......it was buzzy and it picked up radio stations!!!! I did figure out how to fix it, but as soon as I could, I replaced the cart. No more headaches.
     
    dastinger likes this.
  7. dastinger

    dastinger Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portugal
    @stereoguy Thanks for the suggestion, but I already tried that. I guess the cartridge I changed to could also be prone to noise/interference, but the same one on an old Pioneer PL-100 (with a ground wire), didn't buzz so I guess it all comes to the turntable grounding method again.

    Also, I know I could sell it without losing too much money, but I paid €270 for it and, to get sound quality equal/better to what the Rega provides, I'd have to spend, at least, twice as that.
     
  8. stereoguy

    stereoguy The King Of Stereo Mixing

    Location:
    Brooklyn
    Ahh.....ok, I see. Your problem simply is a ground incompatibility between your TT and amp.
     
  9. dastinger

    dastinger Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portugal
    I'm not sure if you mean that the issue is specific to my amp. It isn't. Tried three different amps, same buzz on all of them.
     
  10. stereoguy

    stereoguy The King Of Stereo Mixing

    Location:
    Brooklyn
    Ah...ok....sorry. Now I understand. I read up above that you brought your TT and your amp elsewhere and there was no hum? Thats a tough one.
     
  11. dastinger

    dastinger Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portugal
    Yes. I took it to a friend's house and there was buzz (exactly the same as heard at my place). Took it to the shop I bought it in and there was no buzz. That's why I'm convinced the issue is with the grounding method Rega uses. It's just not capable enough to deal with whatever is going on at my place (and my friend's) and a simple external grounding wire would, most probably, fix it.
     
  12. Classicrock

    Classicrock Forum Resident

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    Regas grounding works for practically everyone else. Have you tried it attached to a grounded amplifier or phono stage yet? I agree that rewiring is likely a waste especially in relation to cost and voiding the warranty. Also check if your mains is properly grounded (earth spike).
     
  13. dastinger

    dastinger Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portugal
    @Classicrock Practically shouldn't be enough. If you quickly Google the words "Rega hum" or something along those lines, you'll find dozens of threads from people with issues. There are more than enough users experiencing hum/buzz issues for them to do something about it. And yet, they're one of the few brands among god knows how many that keep doing it without a ground wire. It is proven that turntables with a ground wire connected to my amp on the same environment work with no issues. You can also find people with U Turn's experiencing the same issues. And, surprise, they also don't use an external ground wire. It is an issue!

    I haven't tested a grounded amp, don't have one lying around as you might understand and I might need to pay €50 for the technician to come to my place. With whatever I need to pay on top of that to solve the issue, I'm spending money I shouldn't need to spend to fix an issue that shouldn't be there in the first place.

    I haven't tested my house grounding. You need an expensive piece of equipment to do so (€1k+). But, if it wasn't properly grounded, running speaker wire from the receiver's chassis to the ground spoke wouldn't do a thing.
     
  14. Drewan77

    Drewan77 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK/USA
    Apologies, not a solution but an observation...

    A suspicion there is some sort of ground loop going on because I've owned several Regas' & their interconnects were always into separate phono stages (which have earth studs but are not used by Regas' method). Never had a hum or buzz except one time I tried an earth lead from my mains plug to the stud on the phono stage when a hum suddenly appeared (did it to see if static reduced when I lifted an LP - it didn't). I think there are two 'grounds' at different potentials in my system & keeping them separate meant no hum but when this earth lead joined them, all sorts of conflicts started. Removed the link, the hum went away again. The Rega ground method keeps all earthing directly on the playback (interconnect) negative so the slightest interference is going to be very audible whereas with others using a separate ground lead it goes to the system earth, usually the casing etc but NOT into the audio signal chain.

    You have tried joining a cable across to the ground connection on a socket & this has an effect of reducing the noise so maybe this is forming a more direct bridge to the other ground. Maybe there needs to be some way to try & break the link completely. Surely the dealer could advise whether there is something about his setup that may avoid this.

    (I also own an Audiomods arm which is a modified Rega RB303 & this DOES have a separate flying lead ground - I don't like Regas' method either).
     
  15. dastinger

    dastinger Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portugal
    @Drewan77 Thank you a lot for your insight.

    Right now, my goal is to find out if I'm not dealing with two separate buzzes created by different things. I'll need to swap the receiver again while using the wire to mains method and see how the buzz is reduced using another receiver. Then I'll need to get a hold of a Stereo amp to try it out with that one too since I'll upgrade my music amp in the near future and I want to make sure this method works with whatever I'm gonna buy. If I realise that the buzz is practically non existent using another receiver and/or amp while running wire from its chassis to mains, I'll do one of these three options:
    • Keep running speaker wire from the amp to mains and leave it like that;
    • Add an external ground wire;
    • Rewire the tonearm completely.
    Last two void my warranty but they can also help further reducing the buzz, maybe even eliminate it completely, who knows. Also, the third option is expensive, but along with reducing/eliminating the buzz, it would also improve the quality of the interconnects which may make a big difference in sound quality. It'd be a two in one.
     
  16. stonecold

    stonecold Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    You probably don't have one, but I had a slight buzzing caused by a powerline network adapter that I used for streaming to a Squeezebox Touch rather than using wifi. I had replaced a previous power line adapter setup because one unit had died. That previous setup was used for a few years and had zero issues. Just mentioning in case someone else reads this that may be using these things.
     
  17. dastinger

    dastinger Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portugal
    @stonecold It's funny that you mention that. After testing at my friend's house and realising the buzz happened there as well, we started thinking about what we had in common that was connected to electrical power. And, apart from the usual regular appliances, we thought about power lines that we both have. And it would make a ton of sense. Unfortunately, I disconnected both and it didn't help one bit :(
     
  18. James Glennon

    James Glennon Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
  19. Drewan77

    Drewan77 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK/USA
    One other observation - you mention that your Marantz SR-73 has been used each time, at your place, the friends' & the dealers'. Because this is a Receiver, it presumably has a link to an aerial (& the internal circuitry even if you aren't using an external aerial) therefore it has a means to pick up HF 'noise' more easily than a pure stereo amplifier. I don't recall seeing in any of the previous posts that you had actually tried using another amp (apologies if I missed it). Is it possible that the Dealer has better screening within their building or you plugged into one of his amps?

    I may be wide of the mark but this turntable needs to be tested with another amplifier to rule out that possibility.
     
  20. Lotus Klotus

    Lotus Klotus Member

    Location:
    Stockholm, Sweden
    I have a RP3, posted about it a couple of years ago, it reacts to touch with a (loud) buzz... sometimes.
    But everytime I’ve switched phonostage or amplifier it’s ok for a couple of weeks leaving me a happy camper..
    and then starts to act up again!
    I just moved and got a new amp and voila! Problem solved.
    But yesterday it came back.. leaving me disappointed yet again..
    It’s like it is backing up static somehow.
    Switched to cd’s a year ago but got such a nice setup and a good phonostage in my amp som I’m getting the itch again.
    And I know I should probably just let it be looked at but.. I have no excuse:sigh:
     
  21. Lotus Klotus

    Lotus Klotus Member

    Location:
    Stockholm, Sweden
    And bought both the exact, wall rack and the PSU in my search to upgrade myself out of it. So I’m ”pot commited” as they say in Vegas.
     
  22. Classicrock

    Classicrock Forum Resident

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    Reading the comments from Lotus, I am wondering if this is a faulty wiring problem such as a dry joint internally on the arm earth. Rega certainly have had a fair share of QC issues on their more recent models reported on this forum.
     
  23. Classicrock

    Classicrock Forum Resident

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    This model no good in EU or UK.
     
  24. jphabc54

    jphabc54 Active Member

    Location:
    NoVa
    To the OP, please know that I feel your pain. I also have the new Planar 2 with a pretty substantial hum. It's typically not noticeable at listening levels, but I've gone through pretty much all the same troubleshooting. Cheater plug to my amp, shutting down everything else in the house, two different phono stages, two different cartridges. I recently sent the TT in for warranty service, but they think the issue was a short in the Carbon cartridge. I'm not entirely convinced, but I'm waiting to get the unit back to see if a new cartridge makes the difference. I multimeter tested one of the cartridges I used (Ortofon 2M Blue) and the signal looks good, but the hum was even worse with that cart. I've found some good options in the U.S. to get the RB220 rewired with a dedicated ground. It's less expensive than any myriad of other Rega upgrades, and far more cost effective than replacing the tonearm or trying to trade up to another Rega model (though I've been ogling the Audiomods Classic II...). Still wondering whether it's worth voiding the remainder of the RB220 warranty, but if it stabilizes the grounding, reduces the hum, and improves sound quality through better wiring, I'm thinking it's a no-brainer.
     
    4011021 likes this.
  25. James Glennon

    James Glennon Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland

Share This Page