Conan: What's Next?

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by dirwuf, Jan 16, 2010.

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  1. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    History shows that Leno did the exact same thing: then-manager Helen Kushnick let it be known that she was having talks with CBS about Leno doing an 11:30 talkshow over there, which put a gun to NBC's heads. It's open conjecture as to whether this forced Carson's hand to retire early, but Bill Carter's book on the Late Night Wars says it was just a coincidence. Faced with either Leno or Letterman bolting to CBS for an 11:30 show, they went with Leno -- and from a money point of view, that was the right decision for NBC.

    I think that was probably true, but... you could make that same argument about George Lopez' show.

    I think Carter's second book on the Conan vs. Leno situation tells the truth, and I think Leno acted disingenuously. I've said here before that I think Leno is much more ambitious and single-minded than most people believe.
     
  2. lugnut2099

    lugnut2099 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Missouri
    I always thought it was just talks that never really went anywhere too, but the other day I heard a podcast interview with Andy Richter (on The Nerdist, I think) that had been recorded post-NBC but pre-TBS. When he was asked if they were going to Fox, Andy said nothing was final but that "more than likely, yeah." Made me wonder if maybe the Fox deal was closer to reality than was ever really reported.
     
  3. Mrs. Beeton

    Mrs. Beeton Active Member

    Location:
    Canada
    Disclaimer - I'm not a Lopez fan but watched some episodes in his first season B.C. (Before Conan). I didn't find it entertaining, but ...


    I'm not so sure the same argument could be made for Lopez' show. Much different circumstances from Conan's last days at TTS. The Lopez show had a small budget, was economical, and there were relatively modest expectations for it. However, it turned a profit and got relatively good critical reviews and larger than expected audiences (both of which bewilders me) - there was a certain modest buzz about it, B.C., and it was considered a success (albeit a modest success) story. When Lopez' show was bumped to a later time block (I can't remember exactly, but what does that remind me of? Someone kept whining a lot about something similar. Who was that? Boy, that will bug me until I remember. Anyways ...) the rating steadily declined until the plug was finally pulled. IIRC, Conan's fingerprints were all the crime scene, but no charges were laid.
     
  4. Mrs. Beeton

    Mrs. Beeton Active Member

    Location:
    Canada
    Caught bits and pieces of Conan's show all this week. Am I the only one who thinks Andy is a lot funnier than Conan? He seems to come up with better lines and appears 'faster on his feet' for quick, witty, off-the-cuff remarks. Conan pales in comparison. (But then again Conan just plain pales period.)
     
  5. Yankee8156

    Yankee8156 Senior Member

    Location:
    New York
    For off-the-cuff one-liners, yeah that's where Andy Richter shines. And that's what he's there for. But like a sitcom with the one funny character who shoots off one-liners, you can't build a series around it. Conan is the better writer, IMO.
     
  6. Mrs. Beeton

    Mrs. Beeton Active Member

    Location:
    Canada
    No, I could never 'see' Andy hosting his own talkshow. Unfortunately Conan's not just the head writer but the host. I think he should be running a show (a sitcom) from the producer/ head writer's chair rather than being on-screen. Just don't think Conan's very entertaining or funny as a performer or host. Andy always seems to be funnier.
     
  7. telliott

    telliott Senior Member

    Didn't he try that on Andy's last sitcom where Andy was a P. I.? I really liked that but it failed pretty quickly.

    Andy tried several shows and guest spots during his hiatus from the Conan show. I really liked "Andy Richter controls the universe". It seemed to be the perfect vehicle for Andy where he would act out silly daydreams. Great show.

    Tim
     
  8. SoundAdvice

    SoundAdvice Senior Member

    Location:
    Vancouver
    How are Leno's CURRENt rating numbers compared to the numbers that got conana booted from the same show?
     
  9. Mrs. Beeton

    Mrs. Beeton Active Member

    Location:
    Canada
    from TV BY The Numbers late nite ratings for the week of Sept. 3-7

    http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/20...gs-for-the-week-of-september-3-7-2012/148582/



    Looks like Leno is is 1st place, including the coveted younger demo 18-48. Interesting that he's beating Letterman so soundly. IIRC Conan TTS rating were on a decline as low as 1.75 million viewers and falling (not counting the late rubbernecking- let's look at this accident by the side of the road before we pass - bump he got once he was fired but was allowed to continue to host for a couple of weeks). Leno today is about where he was prior to Conan's debut. No comparison. Leno's doing much better, attracting a lot more viewers and a lot more of the correct advertising demo, and making a lot more money for NBC than Conan.

    A better question - how are Conan's CURRENT numbers?
     
  10. telliott

    telliott Senior Member


    I would LOVE to see those shows again. I should have recorded them. I can't believe Conan got away with saying the things he said about NBC. I was sure the last few shows would be preempted.
     
  11. frankfan1

    frankfan1 Some days I feel like Balok

    The numbers cited above for this week aren't typical...NBC only averaged in one day of ratings, with the other days messed up by the Democrat convention.

    In reality, most of the time, Leno scores much lower than Conan did while host of Tonight. Several times this year he has taken the show to historic lows in ratings, with both overall viewers and younger viewers.

    Letterman is doing worse...his numbers are in freefall...largely, I think, because Letterman has all but abandoned anything he's known for except the top ten list.
     
  12. SoundAdvice

    SoundAdvice Senior Member

    Location:
    Vancouver
    Look at the 18-49 numbers again, Leno could be 3rd.

    SEASON TO DATE

    ADULTS 18-49

    11:35 p.m.-12:35 a.m. ET

    NBC “Tonight,” 0.8 rating, 3 share

    CBS “Late Show,” 0.8/3

    11:35 p.m.-12 midnight ET

    ABC “Nightline,” 0.9/3
     
  13. Jack White

    Jack White Senior Member

    Location:
    Canada

    I would love to see those stats. Would you post a link, please.

    Conan was pulling in less than 2 million on a consistent basis and had a general downward trend in his ratings (except as noted for that last "bump" after he was fired, but before he left the show). It's hard to believe that Leno is presently scoring much lower numbers than that most of the time.
     
  14. Mrs. Beeton

    Mrs. Beeton Active Member

    Location:
    Canada

    Was referring to the chat shows only, but you're right in pointing out Nightline, it does surprisingly well among that demo. Should be noted Nightline really wasn't a factor in late night ratings until Conan's debut on TTS. Then it became a real contender often hitting #1 in every category, including picking up it's share of that 18-48 demo. It's faded a bit since Leno's return to TTS, but still successful. It surprised me that ABC announced a schedule switch NL for Jimmy Kimmel. It will be interesting to see how that works out. But if you look at the all the data, Leno's #1. I'm presuming you're a Conan fan/ Leno hater - so that's probably not good news for you. And I think when people start to crow about how terrible Leno is doing in the ratings since his return (which really isn't accurate) they fail to place that in the context of the general decline across the board for all late night viewing. As I just wrote, Leno is still #1. (Sorry teamcoco, I know that's not what you want to hear.)
     
  15. Mrs. Beeton

    Mrs. Beeton Active Member

    Location:
    Canada
    Here are the ratings for August 26-31

    http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/20...ngs-for-the-week-of-august-26-31-2012/147645/

    and August 20-24

    http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/20...ngs-for-the-week-of-august-20-24-2012/146821/

    and August 13-17

    http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/20...ngs-for-the-week-of-august-13-17-2012/145840/


    and they all are pretty consistent with the ratings I posted earlier for Sept 3-7. So, maybe these numbers are typical, afterall.

    And even taking into account any scheduling delays because of the 2 conventions, since all 3 networks were airing the same thing at the same time, affected by the same scheduling delays - isn't that a level playing field with all of them being equally affected positively or negatively the exact same?

    I too would also love to see the ratings for "most of the time" that show Leno is pulling in "much lower" numbers than Conan's TTS.
     
  16. His Masters Vice

    His Masters Vice W.C. Fields Forever

    I've been looking at the numbers and yes Leno is currently rating better than Letterman (and has done pretty consistently over the whole year). In overall ratings Leno is higher than Conan was when he was hosting TTS. However, Conan's figures were higher in 18-49. It all depends on what you think is more important...

    Conan is currently #1 in one area: 18 - 34 year olds. He beats all the other late night shows in that demographic:

    http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/20...nan-hardcore-pawn-adventure-time-more/146548/

    "Conan also outranks all of the late-night talk shows on the broadcast networks in delivery of adults 18-34, as well as cable rivals on E! Entertainment and Bravo."

    Conan's overall ratings were up by 7% for the summer.
     
  17. frankfan1

    frankfan1 Some days I feel like Balok

  18. Mrs. Beeton

    Mrs. Beeton Active Member

    Location:
    Canada
    I've read all the links in both your last posts. So, I took a look at the ratings again, at least those that I could find. They appear to contradict some of the assertions in those articles. This is a bit tricky comparing different shows with the different time slots, but could either one of you explain then why in the past month Conan's ratings (both the 18-49 demo and total viewers) are always lower than Leno's? In fact, Conan's total numbers are consistently well below a million.

    Leno's average season to date is 3.7 million viewers and in the 18-49 demo an 0.8 rating, 3 share. When did Conan as host of TTS last hit those numbers? And how often? When Conan was TTS host the coveted 18-49 demo was generally divided almost equally (although up and down for each) among Letterman, Nightline/ Kimmel and Conan, often with Conan in 3rd place. As TTS host, he definitely did not attract the 18-49 demo in the numbers that was expected of him. And TTS is in better shape now ratings wise (and ad revenue) than when Conan left.


    in the week Sept 3-7

    Conan (11- midnight)
    age 18-49 rating .4
    total viewers .9 million;

    Leno (11:35 - 12:35)
    age 18-49 1.1 rating, 5 share [season to date .8 rating, 3 share]
    total viewers 3.6 million [season to date 3.7 million]


    http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/20...gs-for-the-week-of-september-3-7-2012/148582/

    or the week of Aug 26-31

    Conan (11 - midnight)
    age 18-49 rating .4
    total viewers .8 million.

    Leno (11:35 - 12.35)
    age 18-49 rating .7 rating, 3 share [season to date .8 rating, 3 share]
    total viewers 3.3. million [season to date 3.7 million]


    http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/20...ngs-for-the-week-of-august-26-31-2012/147645/

    or the week of Aug 20-24

    Conan (11 - midnight)
    age 18-49 rating .4
    total viewers .8 million


    Leno (11:35 -12:35)
    age 18-49: 0.8 rating, 3 share [season to date 0.8 rating, 3 share]
    total viewers 3.3 million viewers

    http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/20...ngs-for-the-week-of-august-20-24-2012/146821/


    or the week of Aug 13-17

    Conan (11 - midnight)
    age 18-49: rating .4
    total viewers .9 million

    Leno (11:35 - 12:35)
    age 18-49 0.8 rating, 3 share [season to date 0.8 rating, 3 share]
    total viewers: viewers 3.5 million viewers [season to date 3.7 million]


    http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/20...ngs-for-the-week-of-august-13-17-2012/145840/

    And I don't mean to get into an argument and I say this respectful, but the statement, "In reality, most of the time, Leno scores much lower than Conan did while host of Tonight. Several times this year he has taken the show to historic lows in ratings, with both overall viewers and younger viewers", simply is not accurate.
     
  19. His Masters Vice

    His Masters Vice W.C. Fields Forever

    I was quoting the same website you were getting your numbers from. But it was talking 18-34, not 18-49; of course Leno is winning that 18-49 demo now - being on a major network.

    However, if we are talking about TTS, well Conan on TTS was even beating Leno's figures from 2009 (that is, before Conan took over TTS), from that same website again:

    http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/20...ow-conans-past-above-his-present-shows/74779/

    "Jay Leno's Tonight Show adults 18-49 ratings were below those of Conan O'Brien's Tonight Show on a calendar week basis (2010 vs. 2009), but were above Conan's new TBS show for the same week."

    So when Conan hosted TTS his 18-49 figures were better than Leno's had been.
     
  20. Sean Murdock

    Sean Murdock Forum Intruder

    Location:
    Bergenfield, NJ
    I haven't followed the week-to-week horserace in a long while, but there's no doubt that in Leno's first year back, he did NOT improve on Conan's Tonight Show numbers in the 18-49 demo. Total viewers, yes; demo, no. And for much of the 2011-2012 season, Leno was losing to Letterman in the demo.

    http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/20...final-score-conan-obrien-22-jay-leno-4/80436/
     
  21. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    I believe you are misreading... the link you posted is comparing Leno's 2010 Tonight Show ratings to Conan's 2009 Tonight Show ratings. No mention is made of Leno's 2009 Tonight Show ratings before Conan took over.

    Conan most definitely did not improve upon Leno's ratings from prior to the switchover. Conan's ratings in the 18-49 demographic were 21% lower than Leno's had been.
     
  22. Captain Groovy

    Captain Groovy Senior Member

    Location:
    Freedonia, USA
    The big mess-up, of course, is they shouldn't have gotten rid of Leno from "Tonight". He didn't choose to go - it was planned years in advance against his wishes.

    Now NBC is suffering. Conan and TBS is suffering. Is Letterman even still alive?

    Anyway, the format is dying. We're just living through it right now.

    Just wish it were sitcoms that died first. Will never understand why that format exists - I'm not talking about single camera shows like The Simpsons, Larry Sanders, etc.

    I'm talking about laugh track garbage ("Do they have booing on this thing?" - Alvy Singer, "Annie Hall"). Including "Seinfeld" who could have used his talents for so many better things than a laugh-track filled 25 minutes - like Larry David's "Curb" which is a far, far better format for his comedy (and Jerry's IMO).

    I'd like to see Leno do a 10 minute monologue and one "bit" for a total of 15 minutes. Letterman doing a short monologue, a Top Ten list and a "bit" for a total of 15 minutes.

    Conan? Don't get his appeal on camera so go back to writing The Simpsons maybe? Barely treading on this format on TBS is pathetic.

    Ferguson is so talented - do something better.

    All those guys are good to great in their own way and don't have to change themselves. But these formats are so forced nowadays. Stop clinging and get with the times please. The comedy can remain - just fitting it into this format just doesn't work anymore IMO.

    Jeff
     
  23. SoundAdvice

    SoundAdvice Senior Member

    Location:
    Vancouver
    I'm actually surprised Conan getrs more of the coveted spot than Jon Stewart.

    Did Conan's "talk-show-gate" several week moment in 2010 ruin the concept of the format for all of the hosts?
     
  24. SoundAdvice

    SoundAdvice Senior Member

    Location:
    Vancouver
    Is that even public information regarding ad revenue? They covet the younger demo Conan may have yeilding more bang for their buck. Ratings and ad income can sometimes be an exact science.

    I remember Veronica Mars new episodes on TV getting "on the bubble" ratings, but advertisers were after that young female demo enough to over spnd beyond what simple viewership number. Wasn't there some Fox programming that got good ratings but the content scared away too many advertisers?
     
  25. SoundAdvice

    SoundAdvice Senior Member

    Location:
    Vancouver
    I don't recall him complaining. though interviews at the time with Jay were very casual answers like "it's 1,000 shows away..." and never givign straight answers about retirement plans beyond refernce to stand up of fixing cars.
     
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