Confused...best cleaning device under $600 VPI, spin clean, nitty gritty, wood glue?

Ok Wiggles, thank you. Much appreciated.

 

That's good information. Thank you.

 

Absolutely! I'm a newbie, and so this is the first real cleaning solution I've really developed over the last couple years, but I was so blown away by how effective it was, I've yet to try any others. So, take it with a grain of salt as well, since my ability to compare it to other methods is limited. I am curious how wood glue will fare. I have a giant jug ready to go, I just don't have a free weekend to play around with it ready to go!

I've been so busy, but I eventually I think I'm going to do some recordings of my setup and would like to do some actual A/B of these methods and just see how they fare.

But I had a fleetwood mac album where the outer cardboard had gotten wet, and the records were not in inner sleeves, and the cardboard had fused to the grooves and was all moldy and nasty. I thought it was a goner because the cardboard ripped right apart and stuck to the record when I tried to wrench the vinyl out. I was actually afraid even to play the record. But I plopped that in the solution and let it soak for a little while, and the paper peeled off, and I gave it a really good scrubbing. Sitting in the dry rack afterwards, you'd never have known it was so horrendous. It came out like new!

The only downside is stuff comes out so clean, one play and it's so easy to see (and hear) all the new dust landing on the record just while it's playing! I only have the flat mofi brushes, I've got a rounded velvet brush that I plan to add to my cleaning repertoire so I can give every record a quick dry wipe to keep them clean after they've been washed. The flat brush seems just to rub everything into one neat line on the record, and I just can't seem to get the 'wipe-it-off-the-edge-slowly' method to work very well without leaving quite a bit of visible dust behind.

In any case, for those of you keen on experimenting with various wash solutions, I definitely recommend it!

And the amount of dust and crap that is left floating in the solution tub after just a handful of records is really kind of incredible. Just GOBS of dust, particularly if they're thrifstore haul records.

 

My main cleaning method is to use my VPI but I've had pretty good results with wood glue for records normal cleaning would not help. All the best!

 

Thanks again, Wiggles, and here I thought you were a digital only guy.

 

I have not used a KAB, but I'll briefly go into my experience with the slot based vacuums I have used. I've owned (and still own the VPI, I need to get around to listing it) the Nitty Gritty 1.5 and VPI 16.5. In my experience after vacuuming on either machine the vinyl only starts to sound its quietest at least 24 hours after vacuuming. This has been my friend's experience as well and it was using his Loricraft that convinced me to get one.

With the Loricraft the vinyl I've cleaned on it was always consistently quieter than anything I could achieve on the VPI or Nitty Gritty. And I think further proof of this is that I could listen to vinyl cleaned on the Loricraft immediately and the surface noise was identical to even if it was played 24 hours later. It is simple physics after all; a small nozzle creating suction from a few grooves will vacuum better than one attempting to do the same job over an entire surface.

I'm not trashing either machine. The NG and VPI are tremendous values and get damn good results.

These are just my experiences with all 3 machines. FWIW I am darn picky when it comes to how quiet surfaces are as I play all my vinyl on these headphones before I deem them worthy of speaker use, as those headphones are far more critical of surface noise than my speakers.

That said I still really appreciate your tip on the lab grade water, the stuff is great

 

And how much does the Loricraft cost?

 

Heh, it's not under $600.

http://www.audiofederation.com/dealership/prices/loricraft/index.htm

 

No it is not.

If you are pushing up there you might want to also check out the Audio Desk system (ultrasonics will make little bubbles that release dirt from the very bottoms of the grooves. air dry system)

 

Right I wasn't recommending it to the thread starter, but was replying to that specific post I quoted. I got a pretty nice deal on my Loricraft used, I'm not so sure I could have swallowed it at full price.

For under $600 an NG or VPI are fine. Which one you want will depend on what you're more comfortable with (I personally did not like flipping a wet record over to vacuum, as I got fluid on the labels. This is a non-issue for others). Ideally you'd get to play with both and see what feels right to you.

 

This is indeed a very important decision. If you get it wrong all your records will instantly explode

You can get very good results a number of different ways. Just pick one that appeals to you and meets your budgetary constraints and go with it. Worry less. Listen to records more

 

No problem. FWIW, I don't disagree with your assessment that a record properly cleaned on a NG or VPI would sound better 24 hours later (or say, after a couple of plays even); I would agree that is my experience as well using the KAB.

My comments were not meant to denigrate the Monks or Loricraft; in theory, at least, and also corroborated by your experience, they should and do remove even more of the fluids and suspended dirt. They are great machines, just a little pricey for me and that is a personal decision more than anything else.

The idea that I really meant to get across is the importance of the fluids themselves in the cleaning process and the idea that someone with the right fluids and technique using a NG or VPI or even a slightly modified shop vac might actually obtain superior results than someone using a Monks or Loricraft with inferior fluids; say, either a one step cleaner or an inferior rinsing agent. In that sense, the fluids and technique are just as important, if not moreso, than the RCM.

The Audio Desk sysem mentioned by Metralla is interesting (it should be at $4K) but I'm not really sold on a system that air dries as opposed to vacuuming and I'm not really willing to fork out the $4K to find out as I figure my results are pretty good.

Wood glue is interesting but holds no appeal to me at all. It seems to be incredibly slow and labour intensive for anyone with more than a very modest vinyl collection and the idea of lunching a fairly expensive moving coil cartridge on a piece of glue inadvertently left over in the removal process is enough for me to avoid that one completely.

Glad the water worked out for you!

 

I agree on the quality of the cleaning fluids. I've seen that time and time again. Audio Intelligent is the best stuff I have tried but the Mofi products are a close second. The key ingredient in my experimenting has been the enzyme cleaner. That really makes a difference!

 

I agree the AI stuff is really good. The enzyme now gets used on every record. It just works so well.

I also think it's important to really flood the grooves for instance by taking 1-5 minutes per fluid on something like the VPI. I think the SC does a good job in this area because you're really soaking the vinyl.

Then you need to get it off which in my experience a vacuum does much better then when I just used microfiber towels.

Then you need a good rinse and dry.

I've never had a static problem with my VPI. And I vacuum the heck out of 'em.

 

Maybe this is a dumb question, but did record shops used to clean LPs before putting them on the shelf? Almost every record I've brought home has been filthy and covered in dust.

 

glue? I see some videos about it etc... but seriously than can left some particules on the record... maybe not see it the human eye, just microscope?

is better a real cleaning machine, or is good first use glue and later the cleaning machine?

 

and just fore remember Okki Nokki have reverse mode, VPI dont

 

i always felt playing my records cleaned them best.
hard to beat a diamond with a gram of weight in the groove

 

Anyone who uses Rega or Linn turntables -- given that the founders of both companies think record cleaning is largely a waste of time -- how to do square their opinions with your own experience? Does Roy Gandy have wool ears? If you can hear the difference, but Roy can't, then what are we to make of Roy? Why would you buy a turntable made by someone who can't hear?

 

Roy Gandy may have been saying that for records that are like new. I have a P5, and I still use my VPI anyway on pretty much everything.

 

The actual demos Linn made were to the effect you didn't need to obsess to get good results. There will always be those that obsess away anyway.

A Linn MC on a Sondek is pretty effective at cleaning the disc. This is easily verified by using a Carbon Fiber brush like the Hunt EDA before and after playing a side.

BTW, if all the dust you get is fine and grey, it might be time to get your stylus checked. You should look at the dust under a microscope for fun - it's easy to pick out dirt, grit, fluff and .. smoothly scraped off plastic. You have been warned.

 

Just a word of caution on cleaning with wood glue, don't bother with it in cold weather, as the glue will take too long to dry and become brittle when you try to remove it from the LP. It also tends to leave an audible residue after this as well, which can luckily be removed with a regular old distilled water + iso alcohol mix.

 

I buy mostly used records. I usually do not bother to clean them.
IF they have dust on them i vacuum them off with my floor vacuum cleaner using a brush I save only for LPs.
If the Lps have any real dust in the grooves, i rinse them off in the sink. Ony a rinse with plain lukewarm tap water, carefully around ech side twice.
Then i pat dry with Viva paper towels. And suck the last moisture off with the vacuum. then i play the record immediately.
I own a Nitty Gritty cleaning maching (was given it for free)and do not bother to use it. My method works as well, is FREE, and is totally great for my needs.
I do replace most inner sleeves...

 

One of my turntables is a Rega Planar 2 (with an AT440MLA). A few weeks back I picked up a first-matrix Y&B Beatles RUBBER SOUL stereo LP. Visually it looked extremely clean yet when I played it there was a lot of 'crackle'. I cleaned it in my Spin Clean and when I played it there was barely any noise at all. So IMO record cleaners are absolutely worth it as they can make a significant difference.

 

I haven't seen this problem. Actually I've seen that wood glue takes a little longer to dry in warm weather, but keep in mind I live in the Northeast USA so it can get humid here, in the summer. The kind of heating system might also have an effect -- I have baseboard heating. I would think that forced hot air could make the glue a bit brittle as that tends to suck the humidity right out of the air.

The only issue I've had with winter wood gluing is some additional static, but I usually couple that with a Spin Clean wet cleaning and that fixes that.