Confused...best cleaning device under $600 VPI, spin clean, nitty gritty, wood glue?

help me out here.. I havent played records for a few decades.
I remember the odd pop from an LP but never crackle. I remember fuzz on the needle but that just made it dull (at worst). Crackle?

 

VPI is what I recommend for the price for most needs. And it beats a Spin Clean in the long run.

 

I've never had this problem at all.

 

It was kind of like a light static sound... I'm guessing there was a lot of deeply-embedded dust in the groove.

 

Oh god, I hope you're not serious.

 

100% ..never wandered down the chemical/residue path.
perhaps a gentle brush - nothing more

what kind of filthy records are you playing?

 

New ones. Brand spanking new ones. I am totally serious here.

I actually wasn't convinced about cleaning new records until I bought a Spin Clean on the cheap - now I do a quick cleaning with it on my new LP's and it's very telling just by how much crud ends up in the water after cleaning a few of these. Most recently, my copy of The Joy Formidable's "Wolf's Law" was particularly grimy.

As for used ones, it's almost a given. 25+ years of dirt and dust and heck knows what else definitely can get embedded in there - I try to at least use the Spin Clean, and for the overly grimy ones it gets a wood cleaning first.

 

interesting. last I checked, a diamond was the hardest substance known to man.
if a cut diamond cant clear a path through the grooves.. we've got a bigger problem here.

 

Yeah, well, 1) it sounds terrible when you're playing through noise
2) all the gunk worn onto the stylus degrades the life and tracking ability of the stylus which makes things sound bad even when you're later playing a clean record (and transfers crap onto your clean record)
3)all that gunk stuck on the stylus also increases wear on the record
4) it wears the grime into the groove so that when somebody with a clue comes along later wanting to brush or wash dust off the record, it's fused and worn in there in there basically forever.

Some new, some old, some very dirty thriftstore finds. EVERY record gets wet washed in tergitol solution before it touches my table. I detailed my methods earlier, and posted a video in another thread specifically on my own method, but there are many ways to clean a record. It makes a WORLD of difference over rudimentary dry brushing which I don't really consider to be cleaning at all.

 

bollocks. I could argue you're damaging your record with excessive abrasion. One shouldn't have dirty water cleaning new/well cared for records.
the beauty of vinyl is the perfection in its simplicity. if it we're such a beast we'd go digital and never look back.

I agree a dry brush isn't a fix. imo, it just pushed the fuzz back in the micro grooves - playing the record cleaned it best.

 

I'm not following your logic at all. You have any evidence to back this up? How can you even compare before/after if the stylus is allegedly doing a dual function of playing/cleaning, as you claim?

If you stylus it actually cleaning the vinyl, where is the debris going? Onto your stylus (and, if so, are you cleaning the stylus regularly?) Or do you think your stylus is somehow expelling the excess matter into the air? I'm curious as to what you think is going on there.

Btw, what stylus do you use?

EDIT: My bad -- I just noticed that you posted earlier that you haven't played a record "in a few decades". So you're basically going on experience from decades ago. I'm going on experience from...yesterday.

 

are you saying you never clean your needle? if you do, why? how did it get dirty?
i'll let you know what needle im dropping the day I purchase a turntable again.
im rather looking forward to that day.. but its not for another 5 years.

 

I try to clean my needle after a few LP plays at most - usually a Magic Eraser as it's cheap, effective and contains no chemicals. If your record is dirty, you will get debris buildup on your needle - it's easy to see just by using a magnifying glass. I do use the cleaning brush my stylus came with with each side, however. A quick brush from back to front before I drop the needle.

What I don't follow is why you're giving advise on how the OP (or anyone else) should clean their records, if you don't have a turntable and haven't played a record in decades yourself. I'm not writing this to be demeaning, so I hope you don't take it like that -- only that my own knowledge of record cleaning has increased substantially since I started playing them regularly again in the last two years. It was a lot of trial and error on my part, and some help from forum members here - I'm generally a lazy person and would prefer not to clean them at all, but once I heard the difference before/after, I knew it was worth doing.

As for your comment about potentially damaging records by cleaning them -- I don't believe that's true but I have no long-term evidence to prove that. For me the short-term advantages outweigh any possible long-term effects, but if someone who's been regularly cleaning their records for a decade or more could chime in, I'd like to hear their take on it.

 

whoa.. im not here to offer advice ~ im only stating my opinion. totally different.
I think everyone should do their own thing.

..and if I ever decide to sell my record collection. hey, played only ~ never power washed. minty baby! show me the money.

 

Well, when you called bollocks on Chris, it may be opinion (mine is as well btw), but you put yourself into a position as someone who seemed to have experience on the topic at hand - so much so that I assumed at first that you had a working turntable and regularly played records -- until I went back into your earlier post on this page.

No worries, and again my bad for my assumptions and not reading into the thread more heavily before responding.

 

well look at the post.. "dirt on the record will damage the diamond".
records are tough (they better be.. 'cause some of you crazies are pouring wood glue on them! ). And when it comes to diamond vs dirt vs vinyl.. the diamond is gonna win.

hey maybe I'm wrong. Start a thread - I'd love to read about your extensive experience as to how dust and whatnot destroys diamonds, records, and turntables.

 

The Spin-Clean has done a great job for me for many years. I almost spent a grand on a Nitty Gritty Mini Pro I last year but decided to stick with the SC.

 

I'm considering a Spin Clean at some point in the future. For now, I'm manually cleaning records with a mix of alcohol and water using cotton pads but I have a few records that still sound like there's dirt way down in the grooves. Early Dylan monos that I've recently acquired, in particular. I have a small collection, and seems the return on investment for a Spin Clean is pretty high.

 

When I first looked into cleaning records, beyond just the discwasher/carbon fiber brush, I read through some long posts and found that what most made sense was the spin clean paired with a record vacuuming device (I bought the KAB EV-1). This can be done for a bit under $600. A few reasons I am comfortable with this method: one, the full submersion gets deep in the grooves to at least loosen the debris if not draw it out, and also takes all static out of the records without and zero/anti static device; two, the vacuum of a record that is upside down and already dripping seems so much more likely to suck whatever's in the grooves out, whereas some devices attempt to vacuum up out of the grooves. I can say that some records Ive received from a VPI seem to "smooth out" the sound in the grooves rather than deep clean, which I think the Spin Clean paired with a vacuum does better. IMO the use of cloth to dry albums after washing is not a good idea, and can put whatever's on the record right back in the grooves, with the possibility of adding even more from the cloth. I did this when I originally had the Spin Clean and thought I could get away with air or cloth drying. I always felt my records came out noisier that way. Of course, this is all my method and others have found success with what they do. YMMV

 

I happen to agree with our host when it comes to cleaning records. Leaves behind residue that not even the best vacuums can pick up that is way worse than if you just left a little dust on it.

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/cleaning-new-vinyl.43387/

 

Using a surfactant based cleaner without adequate rinsing may well result in something like this but my experience, and I would bet heavily the experience of others as well, is that proper rinsing with a high purity water results in little or no residue being left behind.

Certainly so that the record (including in many cases brand new records) will sound noticeably better. Not just better in terms of a reduction of clicks and pops relating to removal of the dirt that might be embedded in the grooves prior to cleaning but also noticeably better in terms of the retreival of the actual information in the grooves themselves.

 

Unless you have a keith monks or something really good it's just not worth it in my opinion. The flet lips on the cheap cleaners leave behind residue, uneven records will have residue no matter what, the raised outer edge of the lp prevents a good suction on the tube of the machine on the outer grooves, the vacuum itself causes the fluid to evaporate rapidly leaving behind solid residue, you can't vacuum it more than 1 or 2 turns or you will get a lot of static but 1 to 2 turns will not get everything up, worst of all you dredge up material that was well below the stylus and now bring it up higher into the groove walls where it makes things worse. I know I am in the minority but I feel that the inexpensive options on the market do more harm than good. But to each their own certainly people can do whatever they want, makes no difference to me, I just wouldn't buy any of their records. However, my suggestion would be to avoid tap water at all costs, as some here have stated they use tap water to clean their records!

 

Certainly would agree with you on the tap water. Very high purity water (either ultra pure or reagent grade) provides the best results in my experience. Tap water is simply not going near my records. And, ultimately, I'd prefer to buy a record that's never been wet cleaned, even if it's absolutely filthy (as long as it shows signs of the vinyl being in very good condition beneath the dirt) than one that has been wet cleaned poorly (with or without a vacuum).

Not much else I can agree with you on though. I've cleaned records using a KAB EV1 that I've had cleaned previously on a Monks and they've sounded better, mainly because the first stage cleaner was probably not as effective when the Monks was used and the record was not further rinsed/cleaned with high purity water. So that doesn't prove that an EVI is better than a Monks, but it does prove, IMO, that any decent slot or wand based vacuum cleaner can be very effective with the right fluids and technique.

I also had the opportunity to purchase a used Monks (very well used, unfortunately and it made me a bit nervous-it definitely needed some work) for $800 before I purchased the KAB and have never regretted not buying it.

 

There's already a thread - this one. I can only give you results, btw - wood glue and Spin Clean both. I can even supply before / after WAV samples, if you'd like.

What I like about the Spin Clean isn't that it cleans better. Only that it takes a few manual procedures and allows me to do them in a more enclosed space, and make it more efficient. So instead of using my sink and my kitchen countertop or table, I can clean these in a small area I've set aside. And since the cleaning fluid is good for a week's "session", I'll usually try to clean at least ten LP's over a small stretch of time. They dry pretty fast.

 

That's ok most people never agree with me! I respect your opinion and people can make up their own minds. But sounds like maybe you have a better system or technique than others.