Could Jim Morrison have made it without a band as good as the Doors?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Scott S., Dec 3, 2012.

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  1. MikeP5877

    MikeP5877 V/VIII/MCMLXXVII

    Location:
    OH
    I don't know if Jimbo would have made it without the band or not, but I don't think the band would have been anywhere as big without Paul Rothchild and Bruce Botnick in the studio.
     
  2. 1970

    1970 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oregon USA
    Yes.

    .
     
  3. fifth beatle99

    fifth beatle99 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Eugene Oregon
    That's a good observation. I grew up in that era around a lot of the big LA Bands, I think for Morrison and the Doors, and a lot of other groups, it was more about the chemistry and energy than anything else. As well as good producers and engineers to help focus the beam. I never saw the Doors, I did see Kreiger live at some joint by the beach with sawdust on the floor, playing with his son in a band, and I'll be damned,, Krieger has a sound of his own! Manzarek and Kreiger had signature sounds as musicians on keys and guitar, Morrison had a sound, much imitated to this day. It's timing, luck, and the chemistry of the band, I know lots of people more talented than Jim Morrison, better singers, writers, players, whatever, but there is a certain something, undefinable, and luck, and the age you are living in. No without the other Doors. Morrison might have had one hit single or become a game show host like Chuck Barris who knows.

    Here is a question, all the big groups through Rock History, Buddy Holly, Doors, Beatles, Stones, Chuck Berry , if you removed them from their era, and they had never existed, would the Doors make it now? for example? I think they would, I think if through some magic transporter, the Doors were all 25 years old and got signed and went on the road with their new album, I think yes people would respond they are timeless, but individually not so much, they needed each other.

    May Pang, to paraphrase, this is according to her, so who knows, maybe she made it up to sell books, but according to her, Lennon asked her, what do you think about me writing with Paul again, (circa 1974) and she says, oh yeah "individually you guys are really good, but together, you are the best, unbeatable" I think that applies to the Doors, Beatles, U2 especially, Genesis, you name it, when you get the right chemistry of three four or five individuals, and then a good professional producer in the fifties, sixties or seventies, you see the same result over and over again, but when you examine the later solo careers of the same individuals rarely does it compete or exceed the chemistry of the entire band.

    Mick Jagger, gets a solo album going, he gets famous allstars to come down and do an overdub, all his solo albums were mostly dead on the fly or upon arrival, he sold a few records sure, but nothing even close to the Stones, and he tried hard, promoted, played live, did videos, no interest,, you have to have Keef their to get that chemistry........ Bono, good singer, nothing wrong with his voice, but you need U2 together, they couldnt get arrested in the music industry except as U2, no real individual talent, but something happens when they get into a room together, same thing with the Doors, except Krieger and Manzarek have some chops an style, but in the forty plus years since Morrison died, name me one good song Manzarek wrote just one. there might be one, I dont know, but I dont think so, I did see Kreiger live, and he was playing those long flowing guitar parts, with this band with his son, around 1988-90 in Malibu up by county line somewhere, there used to be this joint up there, there was the great Rob Kreiger playing in front of 60 people eating seafood, and he was good, but its that chemistry, chemistry chemistry, a couple of very famous producers told me this was the key, the chemistry between the guys or gals, If I wanted to make it in the biz right now, I would reshuffle the group until I got the chemistry, it has nothing to do with talent or being prolific, its the elusive chemistry
     
  4. notesfrom

    notesfrom Forum Resident

    Location:
    NC USA
    To be fair, we didnt get to see whether the converse is true - whether Jim could sell records on his own. He did have it going for him that the band was sometimes refrred to as Jim Morrison and The Doors. Would he be the concert draw that Hendrix or Janis were prior to their deaths, if he had a different band after becoming famous with the Doors? Who knows. Same as for if he could have made it in music without the others' encouragement and ambitions.

    There was only one guy, in my mind, that could have taken Jim's place after his death, and that was Van... Van Morrison and the Doors. ...... G-l-o-r-i-a...
     
  5. ssmith3046

    ssmith3046 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Arizona desert
    Some things were just meant to be.
     
    zen likes this.
  6. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Senior Member

    Location:
    The Southwest
    If the accounts of The Doors planning to move forward without Jim prior to his death during early 1971 are accurate, it seems conceivable that Morrison may have had a chance to work with new musicians upon his return from Paris. If Morrison had returned to the U.S. in late 1971 or at some point in 1972 and The Doors were committed to working as a trio or with a new vocalist, Morrison would have clearly needed to collaborate with other musicians had he went back to recording and performing music.
     
  7. Chris Schoen

    Chris Schoen Rock 'n Roll !!!

    Location:
    Maryland, U.S.A.
    From what I understand, Morrison's opportunity came along because of those who were around him, when he had some of his poetry,
    and was encouraged to write for songs. The Doors came together. Who knows what Morrison would have done on his own. These threads
    are stupid (imo)...
     
  8. vinyldreams

    vinyldreams Forum Resident

    Location:
    Main St.
    They did release 2 albums after he died with Manzarek and Krieger on vocals, but of course no one could replace Jim so they eventually disbanded.
     
  9. I think the rest of the Doors needed Jim Morrison just as much as Jim Morrison needed them. Ray Manzarek and Robbie Krieger were talented musicians with interesting musical ideas. But they weren't frontmen and obviously needed someone like Jim Morrison to make things work. On the other hand, I don't think Jim Morrison was talented enough musically to make it entirely on his own. He would have needed a good collaborator if he'd ever gone solo.
     
    robertawillisjr likes this.
  10. Of course he could've! He was a shaman, man!
     
    olsen likes this.
  11. reb

    reb Money Beats Soul

    Location:
    Long Island
    Tough question, his music would certainly have been very different from what The Doors created.
     
  12. dh46374

    dh46374 Forum Resident

    Jim was pretty much burned out physically and with the rock music business when he went to Paris. Then, rather than getting away from the people and things that were destroying him, he surrounded himself with a new set of drug dealers, hangers on and drinking buddies.

    Lightning struck with the Doors and fortunately we can call them back at will. Lightning has not struck again with the surviving members and probably wouldn't have for Morrison either. It's pretty hard to maintain the level of work they did for those 4 years, though, especially with someone as volatile as Morrison. Manzarek tells a story about how before they even had the band together Jim told him that he wanted to be one of those people that flash across the sky like a shooting star and everyone goes, " AAHHH" and then they're gone. He pulled it off.
     
  13. rokritr

    rokritr Shoveling smoke with a pitchfork in the wind

  14. Olompali

    Olompali Forum Resident

    Picture Morrison hooking up with Ed Cassidy and Randy California ..Dr Demento gets on board and convinces Spirit to back this wild sexy singer for his 1st album.
    It's Jim's world.

    The Doors would have been Sand Banana without him.
     
  15. Vernoona

    Vernoona Well-Known Member

    willing to put up with him for 4 years anyway. they decided in 1970 never to play live again.
     
  16. mrgroove01

    mrgroove01 Still looking through bent-backed tulips

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    You nailed it, as far as I'm concerned. Great post! Chemistry is a huge part of it. Bigger than the sum of their parts, if you will. Same goes for all the other greats.
     
  17. Michael

    Michael I LOVE WIDE S-T-E-R-E-O!

    yes...
     
  18. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Senior Member

    Location:
    The Southwest
    Agreed. The original Doors foursome had a magical chemistry; the results speak for themselves. Morrison was a unique member; he wasn't fully committed on various levels, but his voice, stage presence, and writing was a significant piece of what made the band work. He relied on the band; Ray and Robby in particular. Without those musical forces, it is hard to imagine Morrison having the focus and commitment to drive a band to its potential. The Doors needed Morrison as much as he needed them. He knew how to work with them; he knew how much he could rely on them without having to expend more musical creative energy than he had or that he was willing to provide. His work ethic and commitment as a musician (or lack thereof) may have been too much to deal with by other musicians.

    I asserted that I could have seen him working with others earlier in the thread. I stand by that simply because ultimately, there is a good chance that Morrison's savings and revenue streams would have dried up post-Doors and that the only way for him to make substantial amounts of money in short periods of time would have been to recommit to music. He could write and publish, but his poetry was not going to pay the bills. He seemed unwilling to get involved with major studios for film work. And while he was not interested in money per se (at least in the sense of buying material goods), he did like the freedom his wealth afforded him. If The Doors were to commit to moving forward as a trio or with a new vocalist, Morrison would have found himself needing to collaborate with others.
     
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  19. dkmonroe

    dkmonroe A completely self-taught idiot

    Location:
    Atlanta
    I don't think Jim would even have gone into music professionally had he not met Ray Manzarek. Yes, he had written some song lyrics and some elementary melodies, but I don't think he could have put a band together by himself. It was an amazing synchronicity, as many of the best and most legendary bands are.
     
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  20. RockWizard

    RockWizard Forum Resident


    My thought exactly. How many "elite" musicians would have put up with his antics, no matter how loaded/stoned they were?
     
  21. dh46374

    dh46374 Forum Resident

    So, is this book going to tell me that Jim didn't drink and do drugs in Paris and that he didn't die of heart failure or a drug overdose a few months after he got there? Does it direct me to where I can find all the brilliant work he did there?:)
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2014
  22. Baba Oh Really

    Baba Oh Really Certified "Forum Favorite"

    Location:
    mid west, USA
    It was a "perfect storm". 'Nuff said about that. As for if he would have been able to be successful AFTER The Doors? Yes, probably.
     
  23. old school

    old school Senior Member

    So after Jim died. The doors died. So how could they have done better?
     
  24. rockledge

    rockledge Forum Resident

    Location:
    right here
    At best the guy was almost a singer with a good education who understood literature well enough to be able to write some clever lyrics.
    I doubt that outside the context of the Doors he could have become noticed. Without the other Doors members chances are his only shot at the entertainment industry would have been as a model for Fruit Of The Looms.
    The Doors overall great overall sound is what made them. Not the talent of any one member.
     
  25. old school

    old school Senior Member

    Now I have heard some real strange questions on this Forum. Please explain yours?
     
    tkl7 and 905 like this.
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