Criterion "The Breakfast Club" blu-ray with 50 minutes of deleted scenes announced

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by JoeD, Oct 16, 2017.

  1. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    I'm guessing what probably happened is that they tossed the negative trims and only kept the negative actually used in the feature, and all that remains were workprints. In some cases, all they may have is lousy 3/4" standard-def videotapes of the workprint.

    In the case of Blues Brothers some years ago, John Landis said he was extremely angry to find out that Universal threw out about a half hour of outtakes from their vaults, including the original camera negative, and that no copies of those scenes survived. However, years later, somebody found an intact workprint that was slightly beat-up but otherwise OK. They cleaned it up as best they could and dropped it into the recent remaster, and that's what went out on Blu-ray. I looked it and thought it actually didn't look too bad.

    I think given that John Hughes has been dead for a few years now, he wasn't around to police Universal and make sure everything with his hit films had been carefully saved and preserved in the vaults. It's possible if they had started the search for Breakfast Club outtakes 20 years ago, they might have had better luck. I was part of a team of people who put together about 20 more minutes to Oliver Stone's Nixon some years ago, and we had to sift through tons of workprint, IP, negatives, and DAT tapes in order to put it together as best we could. The final version was a combination of all of these, and given what we had to work with, it wound up looking OK.
     
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  2. Gems-A-Bems

    Gems-A-Bems Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Duke City
    Doubtful, unless you think it would have turned a movie that was already an [R] into an X
     
  3. Michael Rose

    Michael Rose Forum Resident

    Location:
    Davie,Fl
    Disney-fied!
     
  4. Michael Rose

    Michael Rose Forum Resident

    Location:
    Davie,Fl
  5. Michael

    Michael I LOVE WIDE S-T-E-R-E-O!

    Indeed...they are strong, they are powerful! : )
     
  6. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Forum Resident

    It might not have turned it into an "X", but the inclusion of this scene, would have been a bit too reality oriented for the average teen viewer.

    The reason for this, is that all of the other "R" rated dialog is teen-speak and is age appropriate for HS age teens. Remember that this movie is about teenager's and their relationships with their parents and each other. Most of their social interactions take place with other teens withing a school environment.

    As, not quite adults, they still lead lives which are still somewhat sheltered and separate from the adult world.

    Carl's speech, which he made at their request, is hitting them square in the face, with a reality, that they are, as of yet unaccustomed to. Enough to knock the film a bit off kilter and kill the vibe.

    There is no way, that the studio would let this scene make its way into the theatrical release. And, as we see, it certainly did not.

    John Hughes movies are a genera into themselves. Breakfast Club, fits in with Pretty In Pink and Sixteen Candles. It is the most grown up version of the three movies, but this scene, just doesn't scream out "John Hughes Movie"!

    While it wouldn't make the movie a "X" rating, it would be best reserved for a unrated video, "Director's Cut." Unfortunately, for reasons that are unknown to me, it would appear that all of the original 35mm negatives and work prints were destroyed, presumably by the studio, making a Director's Cut, impossible.

    What ended up in the movie, was a very sanitized version of this scene, where it appears that the teenagers were zinging Carl, because he was a lowly janitor. Although Carl make a few points, he is still just the janitor.

    After viewing this scene, it is apparent that he zings each and every one of them, in a way, that ultimately gains their respect, by the end of the movie.
     
  7. Squealy

    Squealy Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Vancouver
    Didn't I read somewhere that the only place anyone was ever going to find deleted scenes or a director's cut of the Breakfast Club was on a VHS tape that John Hughes kept in his possession? If that's really the case, then these deleted scenes must have come off this tape, which the Hughes family could only make available after his death.
     
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  8. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Forum Resident

    Interesting...

    The deleted/omitted scenes look exactly like they were sourced from a VHS tape source. They would not look so bad on a 21" TV, but not on a 65" set.
     
  9. SoundAdvice

    SoundAdvice Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vancouver
    Most of the scenes come a VHS with a certain watermarked code(I think "property MCA 4367"), yet many of the other scenes appear to be single camera takes from VHS dailies that Hughes also kept. Hughes would fine the scripted scenes several times, then let the actors improv it once or twice.

    Hughes estate and the studio likely holding back the syndicated TV only scenes in 480 quality, improv takes and known scenes to be filmed like the dream sequence. Save that for the 4k video box set.

    I also think Criterion will go for Ferris, Candles, Pretty in Pink. Follow the lead of Election, Ghost World and Breakfast. I've also seen Virgin Suicide and Ridgemont High Criterion rumours.
     
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  10. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Forum Resident

    From what they are saying on the Criterion disc, these are the ONLY surviving editions of the missing / deleted scenes.

    We shall see. Only time will tell for sure.
     
  11. SoundAdvice

    SoundAdvice Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vancouver
    Syndicated TV version still has a few minutes of exclusive scenes/edits/alternate takes.

    Criterion onscreen menu says "A selection of...." and "150 minute version of the movie" which imply there is stuff they are holding back. Plus a couple of single camera scenes appear to be sources from VHS dailies, which further eat away at the 150 minute claim.

    Not a criticism of this release as I was thrilled with what I saw after spending 4 hours with it this weekend. Can't wait for further Criterion Hughes releases.
     
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  12. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    That is possible. You would think the 35mm workprint film itself would survive (even if the camera negatives didn't), but sometimes that gets tossed to the winds.
     
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  13. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Forum Resident

    Which is one of those pretty dumb things that Hollywood is famous for doing.

    Funny thing, I had a friend over who is a substitute schoolteacher and we watched the movie and then I showed him several of the key outtakes.

    When we were watching the scene where Carl, the Janitor, talks about how he became a Janitor, he tells the kids that the school pays him $11.74/hr.

    My friend spoke up and added, that is more than I make, he said that they pay him $11.27/hr.
     
  14. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    If you put yourself in their position and say, "do you want to hold onto all the thousands of short pieces of film that didn't make it into this movie?", and bear in mind you have to pay the storage fees for dozens and dozens of shelves of material, in a climate-controlled warehouse for at least another 30 years... and the outtakes might never, ever be used for anything... it's not always a clear-cut decision. Do we need all the outtakes for Flash Gordon or Cowboys vs. Aliens or John Carter or Lone Ranger? What do you keep, and what do you save? Who pays for the storage?

    I think only the very, very top-echelon A-list directors have a standing order for the studios to hold onto all the material, and that would be people at the level of Spielberg or Scorsese or Lucas, people like that. They may well have a clause that says the director has to share in that expense (which might only be a few thousand bucks a month, but it does add up). This is not a simple problem, especially when you compound it by the hundreds of TV shows and movies a single studio makes every year. They have a hard enough time just preserving the actual released film by itself, let alone the extra pieces that may most likely never be seen by anybody.
     
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  15. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Forum Resident

    True, but the studio's have been renting and selling video cassette's for many years now. And the secret sauce for bringing in additional revenue is always re-releasing with "additional, never been scene before footage".

    I mean, a good amount of the un-scene footage in this edition is nothing but extra unused takes, where nothing is brought to the scene, just the typical scene retakes, that would not even make a good 5-minute "blooper real", really not any point to it.

    Then consider that these may be actual VHS tape dubs, it makes even less sense to include them. Then when you consider how much larger average families TV's have become over the past three plus decades, making the picture quality even worse. I see no reason for a company like Criterion to do this.

    OK, while some or most of the extra footage is worthless, even one excellent cut scene, such as how to become a Janitor, makes the entire thing worthwhile.

    Back to the studio's. I can understand that you want to hold on to all of your initial footage in the event that a scene needs to be re-cut, but once it's in the can and it has made its theatrical release, then the unused takes would have no further value.

    Except, when you have some on the set bloopers and good scenes, like the Janitor one, where they didn't make the cut, but could be resurrected many times in future upcoming re-released editions of the movie.

    Sure, you don't need all the trimmed footage, but it makes all the sense for them to retain the relevant archival footage for possible future use. I'm guessing, for an average movie, two to three reels, would contain the meat, that was not included in the original print.

    I remember coming across a VHS box set for T2, many years back (during the 90's) at Blockbuster, the 2nd tape held some extra scenes that had to be cut, mostly for time purposes. They were excellent, all but the one whee the new terminator is moving around in John Conner's bedroom and moving his hands over John's possessions, like he is going to pick up some vibe clues, from his possessions. This was real dumb and it absolutely, should have been cut.

    The best scene, was where we find out that Linda Hamilton has a twin sister, and they did that scene, where they were operating on Arnold's brain and Linda's sister was portraying Linda's image in a mirror. That scene was killer!

    John Hughes only died nine years ago. I would have thought that he would have keep a work print of these deleted scenes in his personal library, if nothing else.

    I would bet that after seeing the error of their past ways, that the studio's will think harder before throwing the baby out with the bath water.

    Or, let's hope so.
     
  16. Well they did release Armageddon hardly a classic film IMHO. Hughes films do touch on the challenge of being a teenager with an authentic voice IMHO and, although I'm not a fan of the movie, it's well made and feels true as far as characters go. It deserves it even if it is a mainstream classic.
     
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  17. I think that's true of top tier movies by to tier directors but I really doubt that's the case especially with the home video sales market declining. I agree with Marc in this area--no one can predict what's going to do well out there and whether or not there's the opportunity to sell it a second or third time and have people buy it. The movie studios make the same mistakes again and again for example throwing out or destroying negatives, etc. with the large volume of productions for TV, streaming, movies, etc. there's probably more being produced than ever before. Good luck in keeping track of it, knowing which ones will be the next cult classic, etc. The one thing about the movie/TV business everybody who knows something, knows nothing.
     
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  18. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Some directors have very tight control on what's included, what's not included, what's edited, and what's not edited. Once the film is released and makes a huge amount of money, nobody cares about all the bits and pieces. I'm just telling you the way it actually works in real life. It is true that the post supervisor would be responsible for corralling all the final elements and making a decision on where and how the master elements are saved, but ultimately the studio generally maintains control over how much is spent in doing so. If you have a choice between one shelf storing all the master negatives, soundtracks, titles, dupes, foreign versions, TV versions, visual effects, and miscellaneous elements of the released film, vs. 20 shelves with everything else, would that really be worth long-term storage for every movie ever made? I've been in the vaults for several major studios (certainly for Disney, Paramount, Warner Bros., and Fox), and it's awe-inspiring to see how much crap they do have, how badly organized a lot of it is, and how a lot of it is just really junk. It would take a lot of time and money to sift through it and figure out how much was gold, and how much was just garbage... and I'd bet it's 10:1 garbage.

    James Cameron is one of those directors who would most likely retain very tight control over things like preserving film elements, and I would bet he'd make sure they hung onto them. Again, it's often a question of how busy the director is and how OCD they are about the picture. Many successful directors are jugging three meetings a day and five different projects (3 being written, 1 about to be shot, and 1 being finished), so every minute of every day is taken up with those decisions. I think they can be forgiven for not necessarily worrying about the status of a film they shot 10, 20, or 30 years ago.

    Hughes basically walked away from his career in 1994, after the death of John Candy. He had many opportunities to do more films, but chose to basically enjoy his life and his family until his untimely death in 2009. I think it's always easy to have 20/20 hindsight and say, "oh, we should have saved this," or "oh, we should have saved that," but the sad reality is that there are many, many finished films and TV shows that are essentially completely or partially lost, often because the materials were badly stored and fell apart due to chemical damage. I worry a lot more about the important films and shows that have been totally lost, rather than small pieces of discarded scenes that nobody ever saw.
     
  19. Grant

    Grant A Musical Free-Spirit

    Location:
    Arizona
    Oh yeah! I gotta get this! One of the most entertaining films of the 80s.
     
  20. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    Yeah, Carl's wage seemed surprisingly high given the way everyone acts as if the position is so menial.

    He made about $24,000 a year, which is about $55,000 now.

    Not a great salary, but better than one might expect based on the way everyone acts like Carl makes no money!
     
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  21. TheVU

    TheVU Well-Known Member

    We must remember there was a Criterion edition of Armageddon.
     
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  22. Michael

    Michael I LOVE WIDE S-T-E-R-E-O!

    yes, non anamorphic to boot!
     
  23. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Doh, I can remember working on many Universal dailies projects where we had to key Property of MCA #12345 graphics at the bottom of the screen, along with timecode and film footage/keykode readouts. (The number was usually the project number at the video facility, so they could trace it back to where it came from.) I have literally not thought about that for 25 years. The dailies were rarely on VHS, but they were often on 3/4", which looks only somewhat better than VHS.
     
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  24. SoundAdvice

    SoundAdvice Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vancouver
    It's weird that something like Blue Velvet had the deleted scene film clips turn up in a warehouse. Late 90's movie "54" kept most of the deleted scenes used in the blu-ray re-release, even though the initial film underwhelmed at the box office.

    Pee wee Herman and Cameron Crowe DVD releases also had deleted scenes that came from their personal VHS reference copies.

    http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film6/blu-...nu_the_breakfast_club_blu-ray_00013_menu_.jpg

    http://www.indiewire.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/screen-shot-2017-12-30-at-10-12-42-am.png?w=780

    EPK raw footage and Deleted Scene stills from the criterion show VHS artifacts at the top of the screen.
     
  25. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    So tell me: how would you describe the differences between VHS artifacts and 3/4" artifacts? They're both heterodyne systems, they both look like crap (particularly when not time-base corrected), and they're both very soft and noisy. I'm just telling you for a fact that 99% of the time in that era, dailies and rough cuts were circulated on 3/4". Especially for Universal.
     

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