Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by rufus t firefly, Aug 6, 2017.
Just listened to an audience recording of Yes in Connecticut from last night against ARW in Lorelei Germany from a few weeks ago. IMO, there is no comparison. The Steve Howe led Yes just makes me depressed. They sound hapless, confused and bored. The ARW concert, while not 'perfect' is still a much better performance. "And You and I" raises the appropriate hairs on the back of my neck whereas the Steve Howe version sounds amateurish. He deserves a much better band, IMO.
Yes Howe deserves to be playing with a much better band but he refuses to see and hear what his version of YES really sounds like. Alan has serious back problems (no fault of his by any means but he's having a very hard time playing) and Downes can't cut it on the Wakeman pieces. I honestly don't think Howe's YES will be able to go on much longer and I think by this time next year they will finally call it a day.
I wish Alan White no ill will at all. In fact, I feel bad for the guy. As you note, his health is no fault of his own. But if Steve Howe drops him, I can't imagine any professional band wanting to employ him. And Downes is OK and perfectly respectable as a keyboard player but he's not Yes material, IMO. Sure, he was great in "Drama" and in some respects a breath of fresh air at the time, but Yes needs a keyboard maestro, not just a competent player. If Steve could sneak his way into ARW-which will never happen-we'd really have something.
Or rather, WHY NO ?
I agree; Chris Squire was the backbone of YES. A great talent, truly missed. But there again i would say that
I was at Loreley and I found Rabin's guitar wanking on "And You And I" and some other songs annoying. Wakeman was great, Anderson was good and it was wonderful to see him again even if he couldn't sing all songs in their original keys anymore. The rhythm section was competent but uninspired.
I enjoyed the show despite the super lame setlist. "Lift Me Up" almost killed all enthusiasm in the audience. This was a prog festival and the song didn't get any airplay over here back in the day so you you could almost feel 90% of the audience thinking "why are they playing this crap"?
I saw the Howe-lead Yes the last time two or three years ago when Squire was still with us. I enjoyed them too. Alan White was the weak spot, everybody else was fine.
I haven't seen the newest lineup with Dylan Howe and Sherwood on bass even on youtube. I guess they need some time until everything gels together. Dylan is a fantastic drummer and I imagine his jazzy style fits the music of Yes very well. Have to check out some Youtube clips.
Yeah, call me crazy but I'm happy all these guys are still kicking and playing for us.
Hope both Yes and ARW will also record new albums.
At the risk of repeating, there's only one YES for me: it was, before everything, the voice of Jon with the combination of Chris' backing vocals (not to mention of his unique bass playing). And the greatest line up was with Wakeman, Howe & White (or Bruford), around 1972/73 with the recognition of Yessongs. What i see today is pathetic; How can we called that YES ? Does Steve Hackett call his band GENESIS ? and yet his band plays great, far away than Howe's one.
Aren't you hilarious?
I do feel bad for Alan as I have met him several times and he really is a great guy with no big ego whatsoever. I wish I knew if Alan really wants to tour or would rather be home. His love of music is not questionable and he very well might want to tour even if he only plays on some of the songs. So in that respect I understand getting the second drummer as the last thing Howe would do is let go of Alan and I greatly respect that. I don't see Howe getting into ARW. I think that Howe would not want to share the stage with Rabin and I don't know if Rabin would want Howe back. Downes is a very good keyboard player just not at the level of Wakeman. I guess only time will tell.
I totally agree with this. I think the problem actually with Howe's YES is that they just play the songs, without creativity. They're living on their past. At the time, YES were considered as exceptional musicians. But today, the technical level has greatly progressed (not necessarily the music, infortunately). So, the music of YES needs to have musicians able to reveal the power of it. I think of guys like Shane Gaalaas or Virgil Donati for the drums (sorry Alan), Derek Sherinian for keyboards & Billy Sheehan for the bass. It remains to find a great singer and there is a long way to go !
You can't be serious...but I guess you are. Oh well...
I'm not sure what you mean by today the technical level has greatly progressed. Could you elaborate?
the more i read this thread the sadder i feel. For me its sad to watch us all criticize great musicians who keep going but clearly are trying to emulate their glory days. We are all growing older and will never again achieve our past peaks. Its even more sad that such a great band have fallen out. Just been listening to relayer and to see the photos of them together reminds me of my fun and exciting hippy days. Clearly the wine is getting to me.
It would be nice if they were able to get together and perform without hating each other, but I can understand the difficulties of performing with the same difficult personalities for decades because "fans" think that is what they're owed. Ten years from now Yes in any form will likely be done and instead of enjoying the music we're complaining because it's not 1971 anymore.
I would like to elaborate this subject but my english is limited . I 'm going to try. For me, it's evident. By technical level, i mean execution, master of the instrument. Nothing to do with musical creation / composition. You can be a great composer but not necessarily an instrumentalist virtuoso, and vice versa. Today, in the rock aria, there's more virtuosos (a lot of them come from music schools more accessible than before), but they are not greater composers.
Yes, I am
Somehow I have mist all those "virtuosos". So where are all the drummers who are technically more profcient than Bill Bruford and Neil Peart? Where is a guitar player faster than Al Di Meola? Which keyboarder (in rock) is on the same level as Wakeman and Emerson in their heyday?
My wife and I went to the triple bill at Foxwoods a couple of days ago. Palmer employed a very fine bass and guitar duo to fill out what was a short but very rewarding take on the ELP glory days. I had seen ELP a few times in those days and loved those shows and thought these guys where very inventive and played a wonderful tribute to ELP and would really be fun in a more intimate setting. The reason we went to the concert was to see Todd. Have been seeing Todd for a long time and no matter were I live (middle> west or east) I try to see what he has to serve up. Saw the White Knight show earlier in the year and really enjoyed it and this was pretty much a cropped version of that show but still really fun. As for the Howe & Co. portion of the show. I first saw YES in the summer of '75 in K.C and my last couple shows were at The Warfield in S.F, winter of '99 so the time between my last YES encounter and this one has been a while. From '75 to '99 the band had lost a good bit of power but still had a potent charge. This outing was my wifes first YESish outing and I was hoping she would enjoy it because she has enjoyed Howe's abilities for a long time. NO it was not YES but for me I thought Steve played pretty well, I guess I just enjoyed hearing him play. I thought "& Co." more or less played their varied roles fairly well (Alan struggled and Dylan was a very good addition). None of them played the star, just did the best they could to relate their abilities to the material. We thought we would leave after the first few tunes but ended up staying for the whole set. Another thing> the sound was pretty darn good and we sat in my favorite place> the very last row. This will be my last YESish concert and am glad we stayed...
Howe remains very impressive to watch, but I felt the concept and pacing of the show was flawed. And the pacing was due to the concept - one song from each of first 10 albums played in order, which made the strongest songs #s 3-5, and made it fairly predictable.
Loved Todd as always.
Technically, Mike Portnoy, Shane Gaalaas, Jason Rullo are better than Peart / Dennis Chambers, Dave Weckl, Virgil Donati are better than Bruford. Without counting all the fantastic hard-rock or heavy metal drummers like Scott Travis, Deen Catronovo, Vinnie Paul or Aquiles Priester. Playing fast is not enough to be a virtuoso; Since Di Meola, we have had Satriani, Vai, Malmsteen, Schon, Schenker, Van Halen, Petrucci, Romero, Dimebag Darrell, Rabin, Lukather etc... Keyboards today have not the same place but they are great players like Derek Sherinian (prog metal), John Novello or Jay Oliver (jazz fusion). The world of music is wide, you know.
If you think Rabin and Malmsteen are anywhere near as good as Di Meola and Portnoy is as good as Bruford I guess we'll just have agree to disagree.
Go to YouTube. The pure technical level of what kids can do today blows away the chops of the very best players from the '70s.
That doesn't mean that their music is worth hearing, but the chops are there.
The musicians you mention here are all great and i appreciate what they do (except one) . I never said Rabin is better than Meola. Rabin is a fantastic guitar player, a great songwriter / composer & a very nice singer. What can do Rabin, Meola can't do it and vice versa (too different styles). I don't like Malmsteen's music very much but sometimes he blows me with the fire out of his guitar. And technically, he's a monster. Portnoy & Bruford. Portnoy is a beast of double kick and can play anything. Bruford never did that . He has a jazz approach / feeling. Another style, less spectacular but great drumming too.
Well there are Different Styles. Portnoy can't play with the finesse that Bruford has. If you want to see a monster drummer check out Todd Sucherman from Styx. The guy is a complete monster on drums. He took over when John Panozzo pased away. Look him up on YT. Keyboard wise you forgot to mention Jordan Rudess from Dream Theater-he's an amazing keyboard player as well. I think the problem is we now have the internet so we can see so many other musicians play and we didn't have that in the 70's. So in the 70's there may very well have been tons of amazing drummers at the level of Neil Peart, Bruford etc that just never got that break to make it big.
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