"Cursed" bands

Also,He'd suddenly died while making a triumphant comeback,tragically.

 

Jimi Hendrix was cursed,as He'd died before the age of 28,and Jim Morrison,too,with Janis Joplin completing the deadly trifecta of morbidly.

 

Bon Scott,too,was cursed,dying in a cold car all alone,in 1980,and the band was dealt three blows more,as Fans got trampled at a concert,and a Killer with a AC/DC hat made their life Hell,and now with drummer Paul Rudd's conviction from a murder,not a happy time for them recently.

 

Another coincidence:Vicki Peterson of The Bangles,a long-time Cowsills fan,married Drummer John Cowsill in the late '80's!

 

I think Lynyrd Skynyrd is easily in qualification here. Let's look at the deaths that have been associated with this band:

Ronnie Van Zant (plane crash)
Steve Gaines (plane crash)
Cassie Gaines - backing vocalist (plane crash)
Allen Collins - paralyzed in a car wreck and later died due to pneumonia (his girlfriend was also killed in the wreck)
Ean Evans - died of cancer
Hughie Thomasson - died of a heart attack
Billy Powell - died of a heart attack
Leon Wilkeson - died of lung and liver problems
Bob Burns - died in a car wreck

And then away from the deaths, we have Artimus Pyle accused of child molestation and Gary Rossington having to have heart surgery sometime back and sometimes misses shows due to leg problems from the plane accident in 1977.

 

Spinal Tap lost a drummer to an unfortunate gardening incident. The Pretenders lost a couple of members to drugs.

 

Roy Orbison somewhat - his wife died in a motorcycle accident, and his kids died when his house burned down.

 

Thank you for this. I'd wondered what had happened to him and why Trower had never gotten back with him. What a horrible loss.

 

Sweetwater were supposed to be on verge of stardom, following well-received set at Woodstock. Female lead singer was seriously injured in car accident and never fully recovered. Even though it's only one incident, they were over pretty much before they began.

 

Traffic

Wood ~ dead
Capaldi~ dead
Gordon ~ convicted murderer
Rebop ~ dead
Jimmy Miller (producer) ~ dead

 

Life is tough and people get old, or get sick, and die. That is just part of being stuck to this ball of dirt.
Entertainers just happen to do it while living in a fishbowl, while everyone else does it in quiet desperation.
I don't think bands are cursed any more than families are.

 

The Smashing Pumpkins (the original band) - MOJO said as much in the title of an article about the band.

1. Touring keyboardist died of an OD
2. Had to sack Jimmy due to drug use at the height of their popularity
3. Fan died at a concert because of poor crowd control.
4. D'Arcy's drug use and mental decline
5. Near constant internal bickering and animosity.

 

Depression is classified as a mental illness. Severe depression is a severe mental illness. Do you really believe someone with a severe mental illness is even capable of making a truly conscious choice? They are mentally debilitated by messed up brain chemistry. Would you argue that a diabetic consciously chooses to not allow their pancreas to create insulin?

Well I doubt the management deals Badfinger signed gave their manager the authority to rob them blind, not to mention embezzle funds from Warner Brothers Records - but THAT's what he did! All band income went to Polley in America and he put them on a monthly salary (for tax reasons - or so he told them) and oftentimes as time went on he paid them less and less steadily until by the end the payments stopped completely.

Ham blamed himself because he thought everyone (including Polley) was like him - a good, well-meaning person. He was wrong. He defended Polley for years, insisting that he was a good guy doing his best for them - even after all the other band members saw the truth. Ham didn't see the truth until Stan Poses (an employee of Stan Polley) took the band aside and broke the news that Polley in fact WAS robbing them blind and that among other things they shouldnt hold their breaths waiting for any more monthly salary payments to come from Polley, since this was after he embezzled the money from WB which caused the Wish You Were Here album to get pulled and the hastily recorded Head First album (that Polley forced the band to record only weeks after recording Wish You Were Here to try to extract one more advance payment from Warner Brothers) was rejected after WB sued "Badfinger" for the money Polley stole from them.

Everything I've read about Stan Polley screams undiagnosed psychopath. Psychopaths are predators who see other people as nothing but objects to be used and then thrown away once all of their value to the psychopath has been extracted.

A short definition from the website www.psychologytoday.com

"The psychopath can appear normal, even charming. Underneath, they lack conscience and empathy, making them manipulative, volatile and often (but by no means always) criminal."

 

Not to mention 3 bass players are dead that were in the Allman Brothers Band.

 

Of course they are. Mental illness does debilitate people, and it may influence their choices, but in the vast majority of cases it does not incapacitate them. It's not accurate to suggest depressed people are incapable of making any decisions. Some depressed people choose to kill themselves, some do not. Some depressed people choose to get help or take medications, some do not. Some depressed people choose to self medicate with alcohol or drugs, and some do not. Depression certainly influences those choices, but to suggest that the mentally ill are automatons incapable of making choices is not true.

IIRC, Pete's depression was not a lifelong condition, and so likely was not due to chronic chemical imbalance as some cases of depression are. It was a situational depression, precipitated by his dire circumstances. Pete was also drinking to excess, and quite possibly was an alcoholic at that point, and that also contributed to things. I certainly agree that his death was very tragic. I simply was taking issue with the characterization that he was "cursed" because to me a curse implies random bad things happening for seemingly no reason. Like say, three of the original Ramones dying of cancer.

"Psychopath" is not a clinical term, though it is common in popular culture. I don't think we know enough about Polley to try and diagnose him with anything. He was certainly an exploitative, selfish, and manipulative person. He may well have had antisocial personality disorder or something of that nature, but the limited information we have about his horrible criminal actions isn't sufficient to make that diagnosis. As that Psychology Today website you linked says: It is important to note that the vast majority of people with antisocial tendencies are not psychopaths.

 

You left out Paul died and replaced
Lennon murdered.
George died from cancer.

 

Rock musicians dying from drugs and alcohol isn't a curse, it's an occupational hazard.

 

1 - Where did I say THAT? Reading back what you are replying to - was it really so necessary for me to add the words "...to commit suicide" when we are talking specifically ABOUT suicide?

2 - Right its not true - that's why I didn't suggest it.

Think of it this way. If someone has OCD they have a compulsion to (usually) do something or repeatedly do something. If they could choose to NOT do the action then they wouldn't have OCD.

Suicide can be a compulsion if one has reached a certain level of hopelessness. Each person has a different breaking point, but once reached.....

Right - it could have been PTSD, which can often lead to suicide. PTSD is a mental disorder, is it not? Assuming you scoff at that suggestion (which I'm assuming you will):

1 - Pete was the only one standing by Polley (for years) when everyone else realized the screwing they were taking. When Pete finally accepted reality, he blamed himself and felt responsible for allowing the situation to go on so long and become so dire as it did.

2 - Pete's suicide (as suggested in his suicide note) was meant to expose Polley for what he was and try to free his bandmates from his clutches (in his own mind he sacrificed himself for their survival - and perhaps for his girlfriend's and child's survival since he was completely broke and unable to pay their mortgage - she was 8 months pregnant with his daughter and moved back home with her parents after his death)

3 - Survivor's guilt is also a possibility since if he quit the band (which he did VERY briefly between WYWH and Head First) he had the best shot of a solo career being the only proven writer in the band with a track record of writing multiple hits. He returned to the band almost immediately out of guilt of abandoning them - possibly feeling he owed it to them since his standing by Polley for so long made their situation worse.

Well someone truly being "cursed" in the supernatural sense is absurd of course, but on a side note its been suggested (I have no idea if its true so take it with a grain of salt) that the area The Ramones grew up in has a higher rate of cancers than is normal elsewhere. So that's a possible reason.

1 - If its not a clinical term then why is it defined on the psychologytoday website. Does the website say it's not a clinical term?

2 - Well:

1 - he was a bagman for the mob

2 - he was an habitual criminal in his dealings with his clients (just ask Lou Christie and Al Kooper among others) How he got away with it with Badfinger after his reputation had started to become what it became, must be down to the fact that being English they were "out of the loop". By comparison The Beatles (aside from Paul - who's father and brother - in law clued him in) were out of the New York loop when it came to Allen Klein and his reputation. Some say - well Jagger must have told Lennon to steer clear, but in one of his books Bill Wyman said Jagger did not as he didnt want to make his own bad situation with Klein worse by pissing him off).

3 - in the 80s he got sued for ripping off a business partner (making airplane parts) by embezzling everything, and was found guilty and ordered to pay back several hundreds of thousands to a few million dollars (I cant remember exactly). According to his victim, Polley never paid him back a penny of the court ordered restitution.

4 - superficial charm is one indicator of a psychopath (which they use to manipulate people). ALL the Badfinger members said they found him incredibly charming and affable when they met him, and they LIKED him.

5 - Pathological lying is another indicator - 'nuff said

6 - parasitic lifestyle is another indicator - living off stolen money fits the bill, I'd say

7 - more that fit the bill/his behaviour:

• Lack of remorse or guilt
• Emotionally shallow
• Callous/lack of empathy
• Failure to accept responsibility for own actions

Obviously Polley was a real SOB, any way you slice it. I think he fits most of the characteristics that suggest psychopathy. You don't - whatever.

Unless you want to defend his as a wonderful stand up guy, I don't really see a problem or any fundamental disagreement between us on the point.

 

For Squirrels

http://www.forsquirrels.net/bio.html

 

I don't see a reason to further debate about the Pete Ham suicide. We both agree it was a tragedy, and that's what's important. Just a couple things I do want to reply to, however:

I have no idea why it's on there. Perhaps because it's a popular term among laypeople. At any rate, it's not a clinical term. It's not a diagnosis listed in the DSM V, the diagnostic manual used by all professional psychologists, social workers, and counselors.

Since "psychopath" is not a clinical diagnosis with consistent defined criteria it's hard to debate whether someone is one or not. But in general you can't diagnose a person from afar, and regarding Polley I don't think we know nearly enough about his attitudes, thought processes or personal history to conclude that he had a personality disorder or any other mental health diagnosis. For example, we don't know whether he lacked remorse or guilt. It seems likely he didn't, but that's just a guess based on his continued criminal behavior, rather than a conclusion supported by direct evidence. I think Ham was right, he was a bastard. But we don't know if he was diagnosably mentally ill.

 

Moby Grabe have two members who were paranoid schizophrentic and also a manger who stole their name and music.

 

I don't believe in curses, but the Beach Boys have had it pretty bad.

 

Viola Beach.

 

Stone the Crows,whose career ended when their Lead Guitarist was Electrocuted on Stage while Performing! Him and Wadsworth Mansion,whose equipment was destroyed in a Flood right after their only single "Sweet Mary" came Out!