David Bowie vs. Roxy Music success in the USA - major discrepancy

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by clairehuxtable, Mar 2, 2015.

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  1. clairehuxtable

    clairehuxtable Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Why did David Bowie become a huge superstar in the USA in the 70s, while Bryan Ferry & Roxy Music failed commercially? I think in the UK, that Roxy Music/Bryan Ferry is considered Bowie's equal commercially - is this true? I think they're always considered kind of synonymous artistically, at least.

    Bowie had 7 top 10 albums (plus an additional 7 top 20 albums & many other lower charting albums) & 6 top 10 singles (including 2 # 1's, 13 top 40 singles & many lower charting singles)...and that's not including the million selling "Ziggy Stardust" album which only made # 75 on the albums chart (his first success & sales built up over time), or "Hunky Dory"

    Roxy Music were a minor one hit wonder in the USA with 'love is the drug' making # 30 on the billboard singles chart & 'manifesto' making # 23 on the albums chart.

    was it star quality?
    promotion?
    ambition?
    hype?
    single identifible/iconic artist vs. group?
    quality of material?
    commercial appeal of hit songs?
    timing?

    Duran Duran became the biggest new British band of the 80s/early 90s in the USA with 11 top 10 hits on the billboard charts & I always think of them as Roxy Music mark II. Did Roxy need a visual push like Duran rec'd with MTV?

    I remember reading an interview with Bryan Ferry where he said that his biggest career regret was passing on "Don't You Forget About Me" which became a # 1 hit for Simple Minds in the US. That it could have elevated him to whole new level of success in the US.

    I also recently saw that Bryan Ferry was the promotional act for the "David Bowie Is" museum opening in Chicago...which doesn't seem to fit with his stature as a major innovator.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2015
  2. Ferry's mannered style of singing (vibrato) although Roxy was making head way by the time of their fifth album which was their highest charting album at the time and also had "Love is the Drug". It's possible that their next album could have been their break through one--there's no way to know.

    The bisexuality for Bowie also got attention much like Elton John's and their flamboyant style caught the imagination of the public. Promotion might have helped--Bowie was a major player at RCA when they didn't have very many whereas, in the U.S., Roxy was on Atlantic Records which had a large amount of artists that were doing quite well.

    Duran Duran wasn't Roxy Music mark II at all. Duran Duran wasn't innovative in creating a unique art rock sound. They were talented pretty boys with hollow lyrics and they, along with others from the New Romantic movement, took elements from glam and Roxy that were largely superficial without much depth. The sense of irony and camp that was infused in Roxy's music failed to resonant with American audiences.

    I think it's kind of insulting to call DD RM mark II. I don't hear DD pushing any boundaries like RM did. They took the pieces of what came before and made it successful.

    Duran Duran was sold by MTV at a key time of its success.

    One could wonder why The Velvet Underground wasn't a top 10 contender or The Pretty Things or any number of groups that are well regarded--there are many bands that are well regarded that just don't resonate at one time or another sometimes because they were ahead of their times, other times because they are crowded out by the noise of other musicians.

    I wouldn't even define Roxy as a one hit wonder because they didn't score a top 10 or even top 20 hit.

    Timing is a fickle thing.
     
  3. clairehuxtable

    clairehuxtable Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Great perspective.

    re. my mark II comment, I didn't really mean that Duran were Roxy's equivalent artistically, but that they seemed to project the same spirit/style, albeit 10 years too late.
     
  4. Diamond Dog

    Diamond Dog Cautionary Example

    Roxy Music's sound was too Eurocentric to have mass appeal in the US. They did have some influence on Americans who would go on to form bands ( Concrete Blonde comes to mind - hell, they even ended up with Paul Thompson on drums for a while ). They were a pretty quirky band with pretty quirky material by US standards at the time ( which is not to say that Bowie was exactly mainstream ) and as has been mentioned, never got the same push that Bowie got. Roxy was a great band but lots of great British bands never gain traction in the US market.

    D.D.
     
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  5. O Don Piano

    O Don Piano Senior Member

    I'll second the fact that Roxy was just too Eurocentric for American tastes. Bowie was more immediate and his songs were, for the most part, easier to enjoy than Roxy.
     
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  6. AFOS

    AFOS Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brisbane,Australia
    Duran Duran were a combination of Kraftwerk,Roxy/Bowie and Chic.
     
  7. Scott in DC

    Scott in DC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Roxy Music did get played on the radio at the time of their Siren album. I remember hearing Love is the Drug and Both Ends Burning on the radio. I think the difference was that the Siren album had more radio friendly songs than their earlier albums. I think this is why David Bowie had more success, or at least recognition in the US due to his songs that were played on the radio. Bowie songs like Fame, Young Americans, Space Oddity and much of the Changes One hits were in regular rotation.

    Scott
     
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  8. Jet Age Eric

    Jet Age Eric Forum Resident

    Location:
    SIlver Spring, MD
    +1 (initially)

    +1. I actually think Roxy's music is more immediate than Bowie's, but, as melodramatic as Bowie is, his voice is less jarring than Ferry's I think. Also, I don't think Roxy were innovators so much as, like Duran and Bowie, they smashed things together, but their melange was more extreme (at least initially), so you were either in or out. Bowie's synthesis is equally odd but more subtle, so the listener has some breathing room and time to acclimate. Although I don't they're really germane to the conversation, I think Duran Duran's amalgamation was pretty seamless as a hole (and the line to Kraftwerk and Chic, and Chic to Roxy, isn't that long), so it didn't provide the same challenges as Bowie and Roxy. -E
     
  9. drbryant

    drbryant Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    We can guess, but we'll never really know - it's always been that way and probably always will be. Why Elton but not T. Rex or Mott the Hoople? Why the Police but not the Jam? Why Oasis but not Blur, Manic Street Preachers or the Smiths? Why Human League and not New Order? Why the Spice Girls but not Atomic Kitten? Why One Direction but not Take That?

    Interesting.
     
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  10. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits, Abbie & Mitzi: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    I'm going with "Bowie's one of the greatest rock stars ever and Roxy Music were just okay" as my vote! :D
     
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  11. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits, Abbie & Mitzi: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    At the risk of derailing the thread - :shh: - I'll answer that: personality. Spice Girls were more than just another pop singing group, as each member had a distinct - and strong - personality. They meshed and had a chemistry in a way most of those acts lacks.

    I think this was more important for a female pop group. The "boy bands" get away with seeming semi-interchangeable but the girls need to stand out more distinctly, and Spice Girls did that.

    I don't think it's a coincidence they were so big in the US while no other female singing groups have done nearly as well...
     
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  12. clairehuxtable

    clairehuxtable Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    I think it's obvious, def from a 2015 perspective where Bowie is easily universally considered in the top 10 most innovative rock stars of all time. But Roxy Music at least in Britain I think, contemporarily, was considered worthy.
     
  13. Guy E

    Guy E Senior Member

    Location:
    Antalya, Turkey
    Roxy Music's albums never charted well in the US although Avalon eventually went platinum (based on decades of CD sales, I assume). I loved them in the early-70's and they were a hard sell among most of my friends in the Midwest. I remember one stoned night in college when I put on Side One of For Your Pleasure. I could tell a couple of my buddies were paying attention to the storyline of In Every Dream Home a Heartache. When Ferry got to the punch line, "I blew up your body, but you blew my mind..." and Manzanera's guitar roars-in, the room erupted with laughter. They "got it" and became fans... at least for one night.
     
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  14. clairehuxtable

    clairehuxtable Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    spice girls vs. atomic kitten = 9 vs. 2
     
  15. Pavol Stromcek

    Pavol Stromcek Senior Member

    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    I think maybe Roxy Music's earlier output (the debut through Country Life) wasn't as commercially palatable as Bowie's from that same time period. That's not to say that Roxy Music didn't come up with catchy songs, because they obviously did, but I think Bowie's music was a bit less quirky/arty than Roxy Music and more radio friendly, for the most part.

    Speaking as a fan of both, I definitely prefer Roxy Music's '72-'75 output to what Bowie was doing during that time. It's generally a bit weirder, more unique, more engaging, etc.

    When I hold Ziggy Stardust up to Roxy Music's debut, I can see why American listeners would've gone the way they did. Bowie may have looked otherworldly when doing the Ziggy bit, but the music was generally pretty radio friendly.

    For me, Bowie was super interesting on The Man Who Sold The World, but then very patchy up until Station to Station, at which point he began what for me is by far the best and most fascinating phase of his career (Station to Station through Scary Monsters).
     
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  16. Pavol Stromcek

    Pavol Stromcek Senior Member

    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    And don't forget Japan (the band)! They lifted their image straight from Japan, and their early records definitely showed signs that albums like Quiet Life made an impression on them.
     
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  17. AFOS

    AFOS Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brisbane,Australia
    "Planet Earth" has some keyboard sounds that are very similar to "Quiet Life"
     
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  18. NotebookWriter

    NotebookWriter Forum Resident

    The first I really heard of Roxy Music was Avalon, although I later realized that I also knew Love Is The Drug. I understand that there are Bowie/Roxy parallels, but I have no doubt that Roxy Music was probably a hard sell in most parts of the U.S. in the early 70s. Roxy Music was certainly less accessible.

    The first question I had when I saw this thread was, "what about Avalon?" I fully expected that it was their highest charting album in Billboard. It turns out that it didn't even make the Top 4o. Country Life (#37), Manifesto (#23), and Flesh and Blood (#35) all had more initial success. The difference, as you say, was that Avalon continued to sell as the years went on.
     
  19. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    Probably radio hits. I think I have only heard one RM song on the radio, ever, and that is Love is the Drug.
     
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  20. Guy E

    Guy E Senior Member

    Location:
    Antalya, Turkey
    Ziggy Stardust & The Spiders From Mars peaked at #75 in the USA. He wasn't that popular at the time. Bowie eventually became more popular and his fan base was such that he could sell out concert tours, but Let's Dance was the first album that [eventually] went platinum in the US.

    This is a big country with a lot of regional differences when it comes to musical tastes. Back in the day you could sell a substantial number of albums in the US, but still chart relatively low.
     
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  21. Guy E

    Guy E Senior Member

    Location:
    Antalya, Turkey
    I was surprised by the low chart placing too. There had been a buzz about their reunion and the release of Manifesto, but I remember Avalon appearing in the record racks with no fanfare. Avalon didn't have a sexy LP cover like most of the Roxy catalog, it wasn't eye-catching. I liked it right away, but it was also subtle. It seemed like a low-key album at first, and almost insubstantial; one song was a re-recording of the b-side from the Jealous Guy single. In my mind its stature took awhile to rise above the other Roxy Mk.II albums and I don't remember people talking about it at all. If it got good reviews they didn't leave any kind of impression on my mind. They may have gotten critical support, but it was never passionate in the American music press as far as I can recall.

    Roxy Music were a cult band. It was a big cult, but they were never a mainstream act in the USA. At this point in time I still listen to Roxy Music on a regular basis and I love the entire catalog. I never listen to David Bowie at all.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2015
  22. stepeanut

    stepeanut The gloves are off

    I don't think that a sexy cover is the answer for why an album sells or doesn't sell because you tell me ... the "White Album", what was that? There was nothing on that goddamn cover.
     
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  23. Guy E

    Guy E Senior Member

    Location:
    Antalya, Turkey
    Which is why it was brilliant. It was very eye-catching in its minimalist abstract approach. The cover of The White Album was talked about a LOT at the time. It got a huge amount of attention if you recall. And it affected the world more than any other album artwork... "white" became the default sophisticated paint color of choice for decades afterwards. It may seem silly to credit the Beatles with that, but The White Album and Lennon's all-white house, white piano and white clothing in the Imagine promo film made a lasting cultural impression.

    Roxy Music had had a tradition of female models on their covers (most people didn't realize the cover of Manifesto featured mannequins). Avalon was much more subtle, muted. It did not visually jump-off the new-releases rack. It's a very classy cover and I suspect that Ferry consciously decided to break from habit and package the LP in a different manner. But I think it had a negative effect on the album's initial sales in America, even if it probably helped them in the long run.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2015
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  24. stepeanut

    stepeanut The gloves are off

    If the company is behind the album it can shove it right down their throats.
     
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  25. Guy E

    Guy E Senior Member

    Location:
    Antalya, Turkey
    "their" meaning the public?

    Please express your aggressively negative thoughts more clearly.
     
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