David Bowie "Who Can I Be Now ?(1974-1976)" / "The Gouster"

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Bowie Fett, Jul 21, 2016.

  1. karmaman

    karmaman Forum Resident

    there's no indication the mix is any different (2005 vs 2016), and the master is also quite similar, there is no shift in dynamics. if someone is considering buying a standalone release, either would "do the job" in this case.
     
  2. karmaman

    karmaman Forum Resident

    you brought up the packaging and i'm aware that having a differing opinion is permissible, hence my stating mine in response to yours.
     
  3. e.s.

    e.s. Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    Yeah, I don't disagree that the plan was to stretch these box sets out over time, but a box of the RCA studio albums would have basically sold forever. Hardcore fans would bought all of these, but those fans not interested in buying all the albums again would likely have bought the rarities box for sure, and likely a complete Tin Machine box as well.

    Also: What are the incentives to buy the current box sets? I've bought both so far, but I would have bought the box sets I described above, too. Multiple versions of the same albums in one box is not a great incentive, although I see the benefit of having the Re:Call albums in the boxes. Thing is, though, a dedicated rarities box would probably have sold just as well, if not better, than either of the boxes produced so far.
     
  4. Indeed, the feeling that I'm getting "taken" may backfire for some of these sets for me.
     
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  5. e.s.

    e.s. Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    Well, that depends on how you approach them, I guess. As I've stated before, I knew going in I didn't actually need these box sets, so it's not like I was taken in by the marketing or anything like that. I like Bowie. I like box sets. I'll buy a Bowie box set. I actually wish they'd hurry up and get to the last box, because there are actually albums I don't have on vinyl in that one.
     
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  6. aphexj

    aphexj Sound mind & body

    I'd say Diamond Dogs is acceptable, as is The Gouster and Young Americans but I think the 2010 Station to Station box covers the bases better. There's no definitive digital David Live but I can live with Cracked Actor!
    Thanks for the correction. On taking a closer look, I've been listening to a 24bit/48kHz rip from the 2005 DVD Audio stereo track, which is slightly different in dynamics from the CDs.
     
  7. Summer of Malcontent

    Summer of Malcontent Forum Resident

    If you look at it from the perspective of a serious Bowie fan (i.e. somebody who has all the albums already) rather than the maniacal completist (i.e. somebody who has all the albums in multiple versions, every reissue, and all the singles) - and I'd argue that the former is a vastly bigger market - the incentives would be the variant versions of different albums (Ziggy, Station to Station, maybe even the second David Live), the more obscure, limited release live albums (Santa Monica, Nassau), The Gouster, and the Re:Call discs. Not all of that's particularly exciting or without its issues, but it all helps to rationalize a purchase. The overwhelming majority of record purchasers - even very serious music fans with large collections - have zero interest in obtaining multiple masterings of the same albums, but different mixes, unheard live sets, or rarities collections might pique their interest.
     
  8. karmaman

    karmaman Forum Resident

    within this box i agree, although my comment, and i believe Vaughan's, encompassed the two boxes to date. The Gouster of course has no "competition", while i'm happy to give a thumbs up to both the original and remixes of David Live in purely mastering terms (i don't play the remix as i prefer the original). IMO the STS remaster is a dud, the remix embarrassing.
     
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  9. Ben Adams

    Ben Adams Forum Resident

    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ, USA
    You just described why I find this series perfect for me.
     
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  10. MHP

    MHP Lover of Rock ‘n Roll

    Location:
    DK
    @karmaman
    I'd like to know what your favourite pressings are of the original studio albums.
    Not live or compilations.
     
  11. karmaman

    karmaman Forum Resident

    on one or both formats? i'm not sure i have a definitive list for vinyl as i have gaps in the collection that are favourites for some. i could come up with something.

    sticking with those issued on the first two box-sets. on CD...
    David Bowie (1969, aka Space Oddity) - there is no perfect digital edition sadly. the current remaster is the worst option, the 2009 not bad but has notable NR. i'd take either of the RCAs over any later editions.
    The Man Who Sold The World - the German RCA. the "perfect" edition lies somewhere between this and the Japan for US RCA. the current remaster is worthy but falls a little short in a head to head.
    Hunky Dory - the German RCA. the current remaster seems to have used this as its reference but tape damage and unnecessary digital edits relegate it to second place.
    Ziggy Stardust - the RCAs are all similar, with the edge perhaps going to the Japan for Japan R32P. the 2012 would have been my choice if they'd used the vinyl master and not peak limited it for CD.
    Aladdin Sane - both RCAs, albeit different masters beat any other masters for this. the current remaster is the worst option.
    Pin Ups - either of the RCAs or the current remaster, very little to choose between them.
    Diamond Dogs - the Japan for US RCA. the current remaster is reasonable but has some technical flaws and is a little flat.
    Young Americans - the German RCA for dynamics, the R32P for smoother EQ. the current remaster is not so different from the German RCA but has been unnecessarily peak limited.
    Station To Station - the German RCA. can also recommend the 2010 remaster. the current remaster has a nice enough EQ but is heavily compressed and limited.
     
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  12. aphexj

    aphexj Sound mind & body

    ^^ Great list! I'd also submit that the Ziggy SACD stereo is not too bad, for a high-res digital option. The DVD and hi-res downloads of that album are all compressed.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2017
  13. karmaman

    karmaman Forum Resident

    and for the hell of it, the remaining studio albums on CD.

    Low, "Heroes", Lodger - the German RCAs.
    Scary Monsters - either of the RCAs.
    Let's Dance - either the Japan "black triangle" master (shared with some US editions) or the slightly livelier CDP7 46002 2. avoid the brickwalled 1995 Virgin.
    Tonight - the original issue (CDP 7 46047 2 or equivalent). avoid the brickwalled 1995 Virgin.
    Never Let Me Down - the original issue (CDP 7 46677 2 or equivalent) for the original tracklisting. the 1995 Virgin uses the same master, removes Too Dizzy, but adds three bonus tracks.
    Tin Machine - the original issue (CDP 7 91990 2 or equivalent) or the 1995 Virgin which uses the same master and adds a bonus track.
    Tin Machine II - i'm only aware of one master for this album.
    Black Tie White Noise - the original issue. get the expanded set for the bonus material.
    The Buddha of Suburbia - the original issue.
    1. Outside > Blackstar - i think these were all mastered just once, all heavily peak limited, most brickwalled. all benefit from being heard on vinyl to varying degrees.
     
  14. DetroitDoomsayer

    DetroitDoomsayer Forum Middle Child

    Location:
    Detroit, Michigan
    I'd hardly call an CD with a DR score of 11 brickwalled. Album details - Dynamic Range Database

    I'm no fan of the Virgin remasters either, but "brickwalled" they ain't. Dynamically compressed... definitely. Brickwalled... nope.

    1999 Virgin - track: LET's DANCE
    [​IMG]

    BRICKWALLED:
    [​IMG]

    I've heard and seen way worse than the above.
     
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  15. karmaman

    karmaman Forum Resident

    i referred to the 1995 virgin (see below), not the 1999 which is lousy for other reasons.
    brickdance.jpg

    and the figures for this pressing are misleading, there's no way track 8 is a DR11.
    Album details - Dynamic Range Database

    that said, the original had a DR of 14 with track 8 at DR16.
     
  16. DetroitDoomsayer

    DetroitDoomsayer Forum Middle Child

    Location:
    Detroit, Michigan
    Didn't realize there even was a 1995 virgin disc, but the DR database number of 10 still doesn't add up to a brickwall.

    Your jpeg is misleading as that is waves for the entire album crammed into one window. If there was a wave for one song in that window it would show many more peaks and valleys.
    An image of one track would look more like my screenshot (top) as they are only 1db different.
     
  17. scobb

    scobb Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Regarding tin machine II I did see there was a 2006 release in Japan. Discogs says it is a remaster? Do you have this?

    Tin Machine - Tin Machine II

    [​IMG]
     
  18. karmaman

    karmaman Forum Resident

    i do and it's the same. the obi states "digital remaster" in a box, as does the original japanese issue, VICP-5075. i've just confirmed they cancel out, 100% digitally identical.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2017
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  19. karmaman

    karmaman Forum Resident

    nothing misleading about the jpeg, we have different definitions of brickwall, that's all. a brick is a brick, a brickwall is a row of bricks. the fact is all tracks are peak limited, some excessively so. that is my definition of a brickwalled mastering. that the DR is 5 lower than the original issue is reason enough to avoid it, even without the horrid EQ choices. i was asked for my preferred versions and threw in a couple of alternatives to avoid. i see no point in discussing which is the lesser of two worthless reissues.
     
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  20. trystero

    trystero Forum Resident

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
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  21. I'm amaze looking at the DR site how all over the place his releases are.
     
  22. I didn't know about this either. I have the original CD. This one is pricey.
     
  23. karmaman

    karmaman Forum Resident

    it's out of print everywhere though isn't it? even a standard US or EU edition will be overpriced now... and will plummet once a reissue is announced.
     
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  24. BlueSpeedway

    BlueSpeedway Curated Iconic Half-Speed Picture Disc

    Location:
    England
    It's a bit OTT for most probably, to mention it, but worth remembering that you and another member (can't recall who) cleverly noticed that for big fans of the Buddha album (like me!), it's worth getting / keeping both the original and the reissue, as some tracks sound better on each. One or two are limited on one and not the other, and the whole album peaks and dips in a different way on each. I listen to a mixture playlist I made from the two different masterings.
     
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  25. karmaman

    karmaman Forum Resident

    yes, i nearly mentioned this but of the two i'd give the nod to the original for the generally livelier master and for the full liner notes and original albeit naff artwork.
     
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