David Sylvian's post 1999 work - what's your opinion on it?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Darby, Jan 28, 2015.

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  1. Darby

    Darby Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    UK
    It was a strange shift Sylvian took, from experimental/beautiful pop to scratching/uncomfortable avant garde, it seemed to begin in 1989 when Sylvian's record company wanted a commerical single out of him and he gave them "Pop Song" the most anti-pop song there is. Then his collabaration with Fripp then onto Dead Bees on a Cake which is probably his last go at a commercial (sylvian-commerical) record. Though his work with Nine Horses is notable for it's sound.

    Anyway, he basically stopped creating "comfortable" "commercialish" sounds and stripped away his musical melodies in vocals apart from the odd song, like Fire in the Forest is up there with his best or some collabs hes done last decade had a couple that strike back to his old days.

    Well I just want opinions on how you view his post-1999 career, do you listen to any of his albums like Manafon, Blemish etc. In some ways you could say he mastered pop by Secrets of the Beehive, he didn't have anything else to prove, did he or perhaps he didn't to begin with. I'm sure he could've became a household name last decade had he decided to steer back into his mid 80's style work, he has the definitely talent.
     
  2. onionmaster

    onionmaster Tropical new waver from the future

    In general I'd say he's disappeared up his own butt with all the arty installation stuff and the dissonance.

    On the other hand he'll occasionally put out really nice, melodic stuff like this:
     
  3. Darby

    Darby Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    UK
    Wow that's a good one, imagine just imagine a 10 track album of those songs, damn!
     
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  4. onionmaster

    onionmaster Tropical new waver from the future

    Totally. It seems he just needs a bit of control (In Jacqueline's case he was approached specifically to do an acoustic song), and then he comes up with great stuff.

    This one's also good - it was originally on Steve Jansen's solo album Slope before Sylvian reused it on Sleepwalkers.

     
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  5. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    A friend lent me "Blemish" at the time of it's release and I remember liking it a lot at the time. Reminded me of late period Talk Talk. I should buy a copy.
     
  6. Squealy

    Squealy Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Vancouver
    Despite the essentially atonal music of Manafon and the more abstract tracks on Blemish, Sylvian still sings melodic vocal lines over it. I found the key to appreciating this stuff (if not loving it) was to focus my attention on what he's singing and accept the rest of it as atmosphere, rather than accompaniment. I think it's instinctive when there's a vocal to want the instrumentation to support it but that's not really how that improvisational music works -- it's kind of happening alongside the singing rather than underneath it.
     
  7. konoyaro

    konoyaro Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bay Area, CA, USA
    It's not officially a solo album so maybe it doesn't count, but I really liked Nine Horses - Snow Borne Sorrow
    I had hoped it was not going to be a one off but rather a vehicle for his more accessible stuff. As we approach ten years since it's release, it seems my hopes were misplaced...
     
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  8. Darby

    Darby Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    UK
    What can you do though? Sylvian only gets older and judging by his most recent release, he's fine just going in the direction he wants to and if some fans like that then it's great but I know hes isolated a decade's worth of fans. It seems pointless now, especially as his fans get older to even expect or hope for something along the lines of Secrets of the Beehive, Brilliant Trees, Gone to Earth.
     
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  9. Darby

    Darby Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    UK
    I do understand where your coming from but I don't quite understand what progress/art is being made by putting really difficult music to the point of it causes discomfort to listen to with vocals that are sometimes melodic but mostly without any.
     
  10. hutlock

    hutlock Forever Breathing

    Location:
    Cleveland, OH, USA
    I love those albums, but I definitely need to be in a specific mood to listen to them. But then I could listen to Sylvian sing the phone book...
     
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  11. jay.dee

    jay.dee Forum Resident

    Location:
    Barcelona, Spain
    "Blemish" was a great improvement over the bland and lacklustre "Dead Bees on A Cake" and I rate it among the best Sylvian works.
     
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  12. Sordel

    Sordel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Switzerland
    I don't see 1999 as a turning point. The trend was pretty much there when he recorded Alchemy or Plight & Premonition. Sylvian is just another creative artist who doesn't seem in the least interested in pursuing a commercial direction.

    Personally I'd take Dead Bees On A Cake over Blemish by a huge margin but he doesn't release albums to please me.
     
  13. tspit74

    tspit74 Senior Member

    Location:
    Woodridge, IL, USA
    I think David Sylvian has gone insane. Talk about disappearing up his own backside. It started with Blemish. The guy completely lost his marbles. He lost my trust awhile ago. Don't even consider him anymore. And I really loved everything pre-Blemish.
     
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  14. Tristero

    Tristero In possession of the future tense

    Location:
    MI
    Though I respect his artistic integrity, I've found Sylvian's more recent work to be deliberately austere and unapproachable (with the exception of Snow Borne Sorrow). Obviously, an album like Blemish is an intensely personal statement from him, but on an emotional level, it's just not someplace that I care to go all that often.
     
  15. Music Geek

    Music Geek Confusion will be my epitaph

    Location:
    Italy
    Well, Alchemy contains well structured pieces of music, not improvised half silence/half noise experiments as most of his last albums are. Actually Alchemy is probably the album I play most often in his whole discography.

    The second phase of his career leaves me cold. I understand what he wants to do and I respect his pursuit of the artistic muse over commercialism but I don't get any pleasure from playing that music. Funnily I like his last album without his voice more than Blemish and Manafon, but again it is something I would play really only once in a blue moon.
    The thing is that this "second phase" has lasted 15 years, which is the same number of years between "Brilliant Trees" and "Dead Bees On A Cake" so the idea that he might close this experiment and return to more fully composed and arranged music is probably out of question.
     
  16. Music Geek

    Music Geek Confusion will be my epitaph

    Location:
    Italy
    Extremely well put. There is an undercurrent of depression in his work that makes it almost unbearable at times.
     
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  17. moops

    moops Senior Member

    Location:
    Geebung, Australia
    Glad I'm not the only one who's been thinking this.
    Time for another Fripp get-together ??
    Or maybe an album with Scott Walker, they could see who can out-weird the other.

    On a side note : Gotta say the new Scott/SUNN O))) album is a cracker !
     
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  18. Tristero

    Tristero In possession of the future tense

    Location:
    MI
    Sometimes I can appreciate a good break up album, but man, Blemish is completely uncompromising, excruciating at times. It makes stuff like Shoot Out The Lights seem like a walk in the park!
     
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  19. Turntable

    Turntable Senior Member

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    I have Blemish and Manafon and they are lovely albums. Sparse almost unmusical in places but at the same time sucks you into the atmosphere he is creating.

    He ain't no pop artist anymore.
     
  20. jay.dee

    jay.dee Forum Resident

    Location:
    Barcelona, Spain
    He has remained a progressive artist instead of turning into a Progressive one. :D
     
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  21. Chris Bernhardt

    Chris Bernhardt Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago IL
    Because he wants to push himself artistically , and keep moving forward. It takes a lot of guts to do what he does, and it can't be good for the pocketbook. I always thought Japan would eventually do a reunion tour because inevitably they would need the money . But I doubt that would happen now.

    What makes his new music interesting is what someone pointed earlier, the music keeps getting more abstract, but the vocals are as melodious as ever.
     
  22. Chris Bernhardt

    Chris Bernhardt Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago IL
    I love Dead Bees. I think it's his best album. I wish it would come out on vinyl.
     
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  23. Tristero

    Tristero In possession of the future tense

    Location:
    MI
    I find that his vocal lines get a little "samey" after a while. I actually liked some of the backing tracks on Manafon with their distinctive acoustic textures, but the vocals made it kind of tedious to me.
     
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  24. richard a

    richard a Forum Resident

    Location:
    borley, essex, uk
    I agree 100% with this. Exactly my feelings on his recent work too.

    I couldn't get into Blemish at all when I first bought it - but it made more sense to me after I'd experienced the accompanying live performances. Especially the song "Wasn't I Joe?" which isn't on Blemish, or on any album. This bruising recounting of a failed relationship is hard to listen to, and the unsettlingly personal nature of the song was all the more shocking the first time I heard it, in the Royal Festival Hall. "She took the children and the chequebook" is harshly matter of fact, and a line that I still find upsetting. Yet, "Wasn't I Joe?" is a stunning track, with Steve Jansen's insistent drumming lifting the song in the second half into something propulsive and quietly thrilling.

    However, there have been a few tracks in the past 15 or so years that have proved that DS can still turn out a well crafted, beautifully sung, melodic song when he wants to. It's just that he clearly doesn't want to very often.

    For example, "For The Love Of Life" from a Japanese manga show (I think) is absolutely gorgeous. "Playground Martyrs", mentioned above, is in my opinion, one of the finest songs Sylvian has ever recorded and "Messenger" (a single with Blonde Redhead) was brilliant, lush and romantic. There are the more acoustic tracks like "Exit / Delete" or "Jacqueline" which have a welcome gentleness and tenderness that is absent from his more esoteric electronic stuff.

    But on the whole, barring the Nine Horses album Snow Borne Sorrow, a wonderful record, he's ploughed that avant garde furrow deeply. Clearly he loves the glitchy electronic sound, but it's not my favourite style of music. I've doggedly bought all his albums, because I admire David Sylvian, and his work, enormously. I just find it hard to like what he's doing at the moment. His music has been some of the most important of my life, but virtually none of it comes from the past 15 years. Maybe things will change, maybe they won't, but regardless of what Sylvian does in the future I wish him well - I just hope he's happy, because he frequently doesn't sound as if he is!
     
  25. Darby

    Darby Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    UK
    He never was and that's why so many people loved his music, he created musical landscapes that
    Perhaps your right.

    A Japan reunion without Mick Karn? I think not.

    Sylvian doesn't need the money, I would say he's got one of the most loyal fanbases, not a lot compared to bigger names but a lot compared to some big names.
     
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