Dedicated lines for power

Finally putting my equipment on dedicated lines. Electrician is coming tomorrow to install two Oyaide R-1's.

Anything else I should have him check or do while he is here?

 

Put them on 20-amp breakers and have him look at the grounding. Do you have any sort of power conditioning? I have crap power conditioning, and I can plug my amp into the wall and measure the noise on my phono and compare that to the amp going through my power conditioner and the difference in noise is measurable.

 

I have a Shindo Mr. T power conditioner.

 

Brian, I just put dedicated lines in my listening room. It's (noise floor) much quieter now. I had him run 8 gauge wire from the panel right into my outlets. He struggled to make it fit but in the end he was successful.

The outlets are cryo treated hospital grade outlets that are the equivalent of Oyaide. I will be putting a ten foot copper grounding pole into the ground and then connecting that to the dedicated circuit, to have the lowest noise floor possible.

BTW, my outlets are 20 amp but the circuit is 15 amp, which you need to protect your electronics. They are designed for 15 amp service and you don't want to over draw or overload them.

I plug everything into a PS Audio P5 and from there into the dedicated line.

Don

 

I'm sure it is doing a great job.

I wouldn't take any heavy electrical advise online. That said, matching the outlet, line and breaker to the rating of the power conditioning unit probably makes sense. Some people run a separate line into the house and use a second box for audio, which can incorporate larger power conditioning solutions earlier in the chain. That allows you to dump the refrigerator and other noisy appliances directly onto the grid, so they don't share a box with the audio. Probably requires permitting.

In regards to conditioning, know the lifespan of whatever you are using.

 

I'll take it he is installing 20 amp breakers. If so, make sure he uses 10 gauge line instead of 12, it makes a difference. Aluminum clad flexible conduit is better than Romex as it provides some shielding.

 

Audiogon has many, many threads on this stuff, so you probably will want to visit that site.

 

Using a 20 amp outlet on a 15 amp line is not permitted per the NEC code because it is a safety hazard. If something is plugged into that line that is capable of drawing 20 amps the line will overheat and possibly cause a fire.

Edit: Just noticed you said 8 gauge was used, so a 20 amp outlet is ok. However, you must replace the 15 amp breaker with a 20 amp.

That is compeletly wrong.

 

I had my electrician put in heavy gauge Romex (dedicated straight from the Square switchbox) and install two high quality outlets, an Oyaide and a "contractor grade" Litton (just for lights). Both made a difference (I did it as a two step process). You can get "audiophile" power cable from folks like JPS Labs but I don't have any experience with it. Some friends even have installed an audiophile Isotek switchbox. They are very expensive and I don't know what extra performance you would get.

Later I put in Shunyata ac cables on everything. I started with the amp and eventually did every component. Then I added the PS8/Defender combo which worked very well.

I tell people it was one of the best things I did for the stereo as it completely lowered the background noise and all areas of the frequency spectrum got better.

 

Very similar to what I did. The electrical don't like working with the relatively inflexible heavy gauge Romex but it really makes a difference. Also best to run it perpendicular to any cables it may cross.

 

Connecting multiple ground rods at different location may violate code and be dangerous depending on your soil conditions as they can actually be at different potentials. Even with a very slight difference in potential, the earth is a great supply of current. I've even seen a house trailer frame warped from carrying the current generated by ground rods placed at either end. Generally a REALLY bad idea unless you bury a substantial bonding cable between them.

Of course in the black arts of audio power conditioning it may be just fine!

 

As mentioned above, this is absolutely wrong.

If you wired with 8-gauge wire (which is way ridiculous), there's little reason not to just go ahead and put in a 20-amp breaker and 20-amp outlets.

Your equipment that is plugged into that circuit doesn't care a whit what the rating of the outlet or the breaker is. The only time it would matter is if you're overloading a 15amp circuit breaker and it is tripping or you're having current inrush problems if everything heavy with giant caps clicks on at the same time which can challenge certain standard breakers.

If you asked your electrician to wire with 8-gauge wire and 20-amp receptacles and then drop 15-amp breakers in there, he was most certainly rolling his eyes the entire time. And as mentioned above, it is illegal. You need to have a 20-amp breaker.

 

Ha. I told the electrician to use 8 gauge and he said that was over the top. I said of course it is. This is audiophile ****e.

So what should I have him do? The 8 gauge would only add about $100 to over all cost.

 

I've been a licensed Electrical Contractor in the state of California since 1984. My best recommendation is if you've hired a qualified electrical contracting company to do your installation, just stay out of their way. Though this is a very simple installation, the complexity of the NEC/California Electrical Code in regards to a safe and legal installation is way beyond the understanding of the vast majority on an online audio forum.

 

I wired my room with just a 20 amp breaker in the box, and 12/2 Romex from the box to the room. The lights are on a separate circuit but all plugs around the room are fed from the 12/2 feed. The amp is plugged directly into a hospital grade 20-amp rated outlet I got from MusicDirect, the brand escapes me at the moment but it's a decent outfit. The other outlet in that box feeds a Tripp-lite surge protector which the DAC, Pre, and PC plug into. Subs run out of the wall outlets adjacent to them.

Noise is literally a non-issue, my noise floor is stupid low (16 dB) with everything on and no music playing.

I will eventually get a conditioner. I have a nice Transparent Audio power cable for the amp but the rest is just stock IEC stuff.

It's easy to overthink this stuff. If you have a noisy room to begin with, going balls-out with 8 AWG wire from a dedicated panel will not, IMO, make a significant difference.

 

Forget the 8 gauge to start with. It will cause more harm than good.

A must read......
Pay close attention to pages 31 through 36.
http://centralindianaaes.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/indy-aes-2012-seminar-w-notes-v1-0.pdf

If your electrician says NM-B sheath cable, (Romex is a Trade Name of), will meet your local code for your installation then go with #10-2 with ground NM-B cable. If possible after the cables leave the electrical panel try to keep them separated from one another about 8". If you are using NEMA 5-20R receptacles the branch circuit breakers must be 20 amp.

If the electrician says for your installation the wiring will need to be in conduit ask him if he can install MC cable with an aluminum outer armor covering. Worse thing for audio circuit is conductors pulled loosely in a conduit.

 

Not not only is #8 gauge wire overkill, it would actually cause for a very poor installation. Your receptacle is not designed to deal with wire of this size and there is absolutely ZERO audio benefits from oversizing the wire. The correct wire gauge for 20 amp circuit (#12 gauge) already has a built-in overhead capacity that is more than sufficient for your application. Back in the late 80s, I wired in a separate 100 amp sub-panel into my dedicated equipment room and installed conduit to multiple locations. This allowed me to accommodate for any power requirements I might have at various locations within the primary listening area. Total overkill, but fortunately I had a cheap resource. I'm not going to tell you that it provided any audible improvements, just that it gave me multiple options to work with.

I'm sure your installation will go smoothly so just relax and enjoy...

 

#12awg wire is bare minimum.

 

It's more than sufficient for this installation.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...sg=AFQjCNFklY2B7knZIQiWmU7rsH1t_uAd6g&cad=rja

 

Nothing wrong with going up one size to #10. We routinely see #10 specified for lighting circuits but these are in commercial applications where we are dealing with much longer runs and much more demanding loads.

Unless it's a very long run I would stay with 12/2 and 20a breaker and receptacle.

Honestly, I think dedicated circuits are overrated as once it's at the panel it's a bus and everything is tied together. I know many seem to disagree and so be it. If it's a clean, lightly loaded circuit I would much rather see the money put into a good line conditioner. I know there are pricey audio branded units and I am sure they are great, but my experience is more with network and control systems and I've has tremendous success with units from ONEAC.

 

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LOL....
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National Electrical Code 90.1 Purpose:
(A) Practical Safeguarding. The purpose of this Code is the practical safeguarding of persons and property from hazards arising from the use of electricity.

B) Adequacy. This Code contains provisions considered necessary for safety. Compliance therewith and proper maintenance results in an installation that is essentially free from hazard but not necessarily efficient, convenient, or adequate for good service or future expansion of electrical use.

FPN: Hazards often occur because of overloading of wiring systems by methods or usage not in conformity with this Code. This occurs because initial wiring did not provide for increases in the use of electricity. An initial adequate installation and reasonable provisions for system changes provide for increase in the use of electricity.

(C) Intention. This Code is not intended as a design specification or instruction manual for untrained persons.

(D) Relation to Other International Standards. The requirements in this Code address the fundamental principles of protection for safety contained in Section 131 of International Electrotechnical Commission Standard 60364-1, Electrical Installation of Buildings.
FPN: IEC 60364-, Section 131, contains fundamental principles of protection for safety that encompass protection against electric shock, protection against thermal effects, protection against overcurrent, protection against fault currents, and protection against overvoltage. All of these potential hazards are addressed by the requirements in this Code.

Look Closely at Section (B) Adequacy it reads as follows: "Compliance therewith and proper maintenance results in an installation that is essentially free from hazard but not necessarily efficient, convenient, or adequate for good service or future expansion of electric use."

http://www.spgs-ground.com/information/-purpose-of-the-national-electrical-code

 

Seriously? We're trying to help a fellow music lover, not discuss something you obviously know nothing about...

 

What is an Isotek Switchbox? Can you link to the product?

 

And what are your qualifications?

You are not helping anybody.

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Lets start here.


06-03-14: Atmasphere
With power cords its all about voltage drop across the cord. Some of that is at 60Hz, and some of that is much much higher- well above 30KHz-100KHz depending on the power supply in the unit with which it is being used.I've seen a 2 1/2 volt drop rob an amplifier of about 30% of its output power. The cord was rated for 10 amps, and the draw was about 6 amps. This measurement was done with a simple 3 1/2 digit Digital Voltmeter. The more insidious problem is high frequency bandwidth. The power supplies of most amplifiers have a power transformer, a set of rectifiers, and a set of filter capacitors. The rectifiers only conduct when the power transformer output is higher than that of the filter caps. So:When the caps are fully charged the amp is able to play. As it does so, the caps are discharged until the AC line voltage waveform gets high enough again that the rectifiers in the power supply are able to conduct. Depending on the state of charge of the filter capacitors, this might only be for a few microseconds or it might be a few milliseconds. Either way, the charge is a spike which has very steep sides- and requires some bandwidth to make it happen.If the power cord has poor high frequency response, it will current limit on these spikes. This can result is subtle modulations in the power supply or even a sagging power supply voltage.Romex wiring found in many buildings actually works quite well. So it really becomes all about that last few feet and also how well the power cord is terminated- molded cords generally are not terminated very well. If the ends of your power cord get warm after a while, you know you have a problem! This can be measured, its quantifiable and also audible as many audiophiles know. Anyone who tells you differently probably has not bothered to do any measurements- please refer them to this post. I can go into more depth but this is it in a nutshell. Incidentally, Shunyata Research is refining an instrument that does a more in-depth analysis of what this is all about. At the link you will see that their tests essentially confirm what I have said here.

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1401403320&openflup&41&4#41

The same hold true for branch circuit wiring.

 

Just curious, if I replace my existing outlet with a hospital grade orange one, I will get better sound? I'm no electrician.