Dedicated lines for power

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Brian Gupton, Jun 18, 2015.

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  1. Brian Gupton

    Brian Gupton Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Just listed to my first album post-installation (CD of "Axis: Bold as Love). Had listened to it prior to having the work done, so figured it would be best to hear any immediate differences.

    Left volume knob are everything exactly as it was set pre-work. What I immediately noticed was more clarity, more "air", more bite to the dynamics and a little more definition in the bass.

    I know how these things can go once the newness wears off and you've had more time to listen to a wider range of recordings, but seems pretty positive so far.

    About to switch to vinyl. I'm curious to see if the slight noise/hum that was audible before when music wasn't playing is gone. Stay tuned...
     
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  2. Brian Gupton

    Brian Gupton Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Hum/noise is pretty much gone. Have to put my ear all the way up to the speaker to hear anything at all. Used to be audible from 10' away.
     
  3. jupiterboy

    jupiterboy Forum Residue

    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    Congrats! That's the way it should be.
     
  4. rob303

    rob303 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Same issue and I just thought it was my 98dB speakers. Great, now I'm going to have to get this done...
     
  5. LeeS

    LeeS Music Fan

    Location:
    Atlanta
    Glad it worked well for you Brian. :cheers:
     
  6. John R Leddy

    John R Leddy Active Member

    Location:
    England
    That's really good news Brian!
    Sounds like a ground loop.
    Any changes to your component cabling? Mains leads, interconnects, coax, that sort of thing? Something which has changed ground configuration?
    Glad it worked out for you.
     
  7. VinylRob

    VinylRob Forum Resident

    Source first, and mains is the other source.
     
  8. Hipper

    Hipper Forum Resident

    Location:
    Herts., England
    Just done my mains here in the UK.

    I live in a flat (apartment) but my electric seems pretty good when I listen mostly in the afternoons - voltage ranging between 231 and 236. In the UK we have a 'circuit' of cable where all the sockets in the flat except those in the kitchen are connected. There are other circuits for lights, kitchen etc.. There's nothing else that's switched on on my socket circuit when I listen.

    I had installed what's called here a radial - a cable from the consumer unit (fuse box) leading to one socket only for my Hi-Fi. The cable was 6mm2 that I got from an audio site and the double socket was an expensive Furutech. This proved a right pain to connect, so much so that only one of them is connected.

    Anyway, the result was that I couldn't hear any difference! What I have got is a socket in a more convenient place!

    It had to be done.
     
    John R Leddy likes this.
  9. John R Leddy

    John R Leddy Active Member

    Location:
    England
    Refreshingly honest, and displays the UK hi-fi industry in its true colours.

    I'm of the opinion we seem to be pretty lucky here in the UK, if others are experiencing difficulties elsewhere.

    A UK appliance with a suitable PSU should easily handle our 207 to 253 VAC, and beyond, without noticeable effect. A capable PSU should effortlessly step-down, rectify, smooth, and regulate the component's required supplies. What occurs before the appliance's transformer doesn't seem to effect any of my components here in the UK, well not so far anyway.

    6mm² sounds like something for a shower. 4mm² would've been more than ample for a let's go mad 30 amp radial circuit. The same 2.5mm² as used in our ring circuits would've been fine for up to 20 amps in your new radial circuit. MK sockets are more than good enough and should last for decades.

    I'm sure you know all this now after being relieved of your hard-earned cash; I just wanted to add some specs to compare with that 6mm² cable, which made me jump a little. The hi-fi trade's got a lot to answer for!

    Your honesty is more than a little admirable, especially in this environment, and serves as a fine example whereby helping others is more important than eluding personal errors.
     
  10. Brian Gupton

    Brian Gupton Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Just a quick update... The drop in the noise floor is actually pretty astounding which is creating so much more clarity to the sound. My setup guy, Stirling Trayle, just came by and he noticed the improvements immediately. I think he even measured and said it was pretty drastic.

    I can't say if it's the new outlets, the dedicated lines, cabling, Environmental Potentials surge and waveform correction products, etc but the end result with everything is pretty stunning so far.

    Since my #1 goal for this work was just to get a more consistently great sound (rather than a bunch of good and bad days), I'll need a few weeks before I can determine if that goal has been accomplished. So far, so good.

    Total cost for all of the equipment and labor was right around $3k, so for about the cost of a component I got a pretty significant upgrade in sound.
     
  11. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    When I moved into my house I had dedicated lines put in before my stereo was plugged in and do have those fancy outlets. I do have grouding devices installed as well.
     
  12. Brian Gupton

    Brian Gupton Forum Resident Thread Starter

    My set up guy said that the electrician did a really nice job with my grounding. I wouldn't know what I was looking at, but he said it was one of the cleanest, nicest installs he has run across.
     
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  13. LeeS

    LeeS Music Fan

    Location:
    Atlanta
    When I put my Shunyata gear and dedicated lines and outlets in, I noticed the same thing. A lower noise floor really helps everything.
     
    Long Live Analog likes this.
  14. Brian Gupton

    Brian Gupton Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Yeah, I didn't realize how much cleaning that noise up would have. Even barely audible noise drowns out a lot of the micro details. Everything is more pronounced now and just crystal clear.

    There's naysayers about everything in this hobby. I'm actually pretty surprised that there are any doubters with this stuff. It's pretty obvious and it's measurable to boot.
     
    jfeldt and LeeS like this.
  15. Combination

    Combination Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Orleans

    What did your setup guy measure? I'm confused.
     
  16. jupiterboy

    jupiterboy Forum Residue

    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    Exactly. Even the best system can't distinguish between noise and music.
     
  17. Brian Gupton

    Brian Gupton Forum Resident Thread Starter

    He stuck something in the power outlets. I'm sure he was just looking at voltage fluctuations, but not 100% sure.

    But one could easily measure the noise floor before and after the work. In my case, there was audible hum/noise when the system is on but not playing. That hum/noise is there during playback too, just masked by the music. But it obscures low level detail.

    That hum/noise is now completely gone. I don't need to measure it to tell, but it could easily be done.
     
  18. GuildX700

    GuildX700 Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Again though it depends on how bad your power is coming into the house. Mine used to be horrible, then they redid the entire power grid in the town, the hum and noise I was hearing before was completely gone after the power grid update.
     
  19. jea48

    jea48 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midwest, USA
    Hi Brian,

    Just curious,

    What type of wiring did you go with? Example, NM-B sheath cable. (Romex is a trade name of).
    Wire size?
    Wiring method? How was the wiring installed?
    Wiring run through the attic or basement?
    Type of receptacle cut in boxes used, Metal or plastic?

    It could have been a power quality analyzer.
    Example of,
    http://en-us.fluke.com/products/power-quality-analyzers/fluke-43b-power-quality.html#features


    Could you elaborate more, what the electrician did with regards to the grounding?

    Jim
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2015
  20. Brian Gupton

    Brian Gupton Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Attaching the pic of what the electrician wrote on the invoice. Should answer most of your questions.

    [​IMG]
     
  21. csgreene

    csgreene Forum Resident

    Location:
    Idaho, USA
    A separate line makes sense to me. Most of the other stuff doesn't. I have a home studio and we did a few things to isolate the AC feeds to minimize noise. Seems to have worked pretty well.
     
    Vidiot likes this.
  22. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    Yeah, My electrician has gone over my box a few times.

    The grounding devices I am refering to are system related to make sure everything is clean. Improper grounding can cause noise/ buzzing and humming.
     
  23. mongo

    mongo Senior Member

    Sorry if I missed it Brad, but did you ever plug a meter into one or more of the outlets to see how many amps etc., your gear is drawing when playing and at idle?
     
  24. DaveyF

    DaveyF Forum Resident

    Location:
    La Jolla, Calif
    This thread has caught my attention. I have just completed a dedicated line into my room. The line I installed consists of a single 10/2 run with minimal stapling and with a isolated 20 amp receptacle. I installed a new 200 amp panel and ran the line into the panel where I have installed two separate ground rods. I also upgraded all of the cable from the transformer in the street to my panel. This was upgraded to a 400 amp cable in a special 3" conduit. The connections at the transformer were replaced with all new. Have you guys also replaced the cable in the street to your panel....I think this is fairly important. Right now, i have no idea as to whether these changes are beneficial ( I sure hope they are, as the cost has been VERY high...mostly due to the street trenching to the panel) as my system is down. I am waiting on Jeff Rowland to revise and upgrade my model 8.
     
    Brian Gupton likes this.
  25. F1nut

    F1nut Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Mars Hotel
    Note what BayouTiger had to say about grounding rods.

     
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