Dedicated Schiit Yggdrasil thread

The Gumby vastly improved my redbook sound. Highly recommend.

 

The February 2017 issue of Stereophile has a review of the Yggdrasil. The review is by Herb Reichert so will be interesting reading. Herb's reviews are like that.

 

I saw the cover and was wondering which product. Will be interesting to read.

 

Herb likes it a lot. John Atkinson noted some issues with measurements.

 

I’m interested in purchasing the Yggdrasil to use with a cd transport in lieu of a computer.

Any suggestions on which transport works well with the Yggdrasil?

If I use a computer as transport any suggestions on the best input to use?

 

Almost any transport will have SPDIF. That's quality exceeds all the USB issues and is a simpler choice to boot.

I drive my Yggy from the SPDIF of a Oppo 105. Makes it easy to chose to listen to either the balanced audio from the Oppo or from the Yggy. So on the rare occasion of a SACD, I can just change to the Oppo playback directly and the rest of the time listen to the Yggy's playback.

It's narrowed the gap on quality considerably on the redbook to the SACD. Makes a large library of redbook discs from over the years much more valuable!!

CJ

 

Question: If I use my Marantz SACD SA-8005 player (or Oppo 93) and want to send the digital out from an SACD will the SPDIF work. I thought I read you could not output DSD from SPDIF?
I know it would work fine for using the Yggy with redbook CD's...

 

You will not get ANY sound over SPDIF when playing any SACD disc, even the redbook layer.

I own an Yggy and use in a video 2.0 / headphone system and ended up with an Oppo BDP-103D with an Audiopraise VanityHD103 upgrade board to accomplish what you want.

See here:

• Digital Transports - USB Solutions, CD and SD Players, DAPs, and More! | Super Best Audio Friends
  
• SACD players? | Super Best Audio Friends
  
• USB Nervosa Thread Decrapifiers, pro interfaces, and bears oh my | Page 43 | Super Best Audio Friends

 

Here is the Stereophile review:

Right now, I swear, Schiit Audio's Mike Moffat and Jason Stoddard are sitting there in California, smugly smirking at me and John Atkinson. While JA was struggling to properly measure Schiit's Ragnarok (Fate of the Gods) integrated amplifier for my review in the May 2016 issue, I sent Moffat an e-mail: "Are you smiling?"

"Yup," he replied. He'd known in advance that the Ragnarok wouldn't look good on standard tests. But he hadn't warned us: The Ragnarok's output-stage bias program responds to music sources, not signal generators.

Not to mention: What sort of people name their company Schiit? Smirking, smart-alecky iconoclasts, that's who.

I asked Moffat how he could make a $139 phono stage—the Schiit Mani—in the US. "Why not?" he said. "It's just a little board in a box. First I get a bunch of little boxes . . . it costs the same to stuff a board in California as it does in China." Not only is Schiit stuff made in the US—so are most of their parts.

These guys aren't just snickering—they're not doing a lot of things other high-end companies feel they must. No MQA, DSD, or class-D. No menus or OLED displays. No remotes. No legible lettering. Their primary advertising campaign is Stoddard's Schiit Happened: The Story of the World's Most Improbable Start-Up—nearly 800 pages' worth of humorous stories that explain why and how each Schiit model came into being.

Moffat and Stoddard don't care about the high-end audio scene. They appear at audio shows, put a few of their silver boxes on the table, then jabber all day to tattooed young'uns on skateboards and fixies (footnote 1), none of whom read Stereophile or visit audio dealers. (Schiit sells only direct, online.) Moffat and Stoddard have become smirking smart-alecks because they've been around so many blocks of high-end audio that the only things they can still take seriously—the only things they actually still enjoy doing—are making modest, inexpensive hi-fi components that outperform glitzy, expensive hi-fi . . . and stealing reviewers' Scooby Snacks.

Can you imagine any company but Schiit making an all-out "statement" DAC that costs only $2299? I can't. Nevertheless, I'm here to tell you about just such a thing: Schiit's heavyweight, big-box, flagship DAC, the Yggdrasil.

Can you think of a DAC with a better name? Yggdrasil (pronounced IG-druh-sill) is an ash tree that, in Norse cosmology, grows out of the Well of Urd at the center of the spiritual cosmos. Some describe Yggdrasil as the World Tree—the source of all things.

Description
From Schiit's website: "Yggdrasil is the world's only closed-form multibit DAC, delivering 21 bits of resolution with no guessing anywhere in the digital or analog path. We've thrown out delta-sigma D/As and traditional digital filters to preserve the original samples all the way through from input to output."

According to Jason Stoddard, "Schiit DACs are the only multibit DACs built on a modern platform, using medical/military-grade D/A converters and our own closed-form digital filter running on an Analog Devices DSP chip. Most digital filters destroy the original samples in the process of upsampling. They're just like sample-rate converters or delta-sigma DACs. We're all about the original samples, so we created a digital filter with a true closed-form solution, which means it retains all the original samples. This is a major difference between Schiit multibit DACs like Yggdrasil and every other DAC in the world."

In audio, power supplies are the source of nearly everything, good or bad. According to its owner's manual, the Yggdrasil's supply has "two transformers (one for digital supplies, one for analog supplies) plus one input choke for discrete, dual-mono, shunt-regulated analog ±24V, plus 12 separate local regulated supplies for DACs and digital sections, including high-precision, low-noise LM723 regulation in critical areas."

The Yggdrasil's front panel is understated Scandinavian elegance—the exact opposite of Mytek's Brooklyn DAC ($1995), which looks sculpted and businesslike, with its busy display. The Yggdrasil is heavy (25 lbs), and big enough to fit four Brooklyns inside it. The front panel has two buttons: one, just left of center, is for inverting the phase, with an indicator light to its right. This button is proof that Stoddard and Moffat are indeed smirking: "An absolute phase switch is of little to no value in a non-time-domain-optimized, stochastic-time-replay system. It makes a huge difference with an Yggy (which is not stochastic)."

Farther to the right is a row of six tiny lights: the sample-rate indicators. Currently, the Yggdrasil accepts input signals of resolutions up to 24-bit/192kHz, but one sample-rate indicator is left unused, for a future upgrade. Then comes a bigger button, for selecting one of five inputs, the selection confirmed by one of the row of five lights to its right. Above each of these lights is a funny little symbol that I'd need a USB microscope to read.


On the Schiit's rear panel are one pair of balanced (XLR) and two pairs of single-ended (RCA) analog outputs; AES/EBU (XLR), S/PDIF (RCA), S/PDIF (BNC and optical), and USB digital inputs; a simple, old-school, on/off toggle switch; an IEC socket; and some little white letters spelling out "MADE IN USA." Schiit recommends leaving the Yggdrasil on continuously "for best performance."

The Yggy is easily upgradable—its entirely modular architecture comprises separate circuit boards for the digital input, the USB input, the DSP engine, and the DAC and analog output.

Listening
Live music may be viewed as a continuously pulsating wavefront. If you hold your hand up, you can almost feel it. Recorded music is a coded narrative simulacrum of that pulsing wavefront. If anything in the recording or playback chain interrupts, bends, truncates, or haphazardly disrupts the original (live) continuity—all the world's smart guys can never restore its hyperfragile relationships of time, frequency, and amplitude. Love, music, and poetry live only in the undamaged continuity of those relationships. (Unlike the stock market or election polling, music is not a stochastic process.)

In home stereo, accurate tonal characters and lifelike rhythms are the surest indicators of an unmolested musical narrative. If we look at audio historically, it's pretty obvious that digital has been (mostly) hammer-and-tongs rough on this sacred continuity. Whether in the recording studio or at home, digital's punch-press aggressiveness can be recognized by the (usually) hard, mechanical nature of its playback. In contrast to the digital norm, the Yggdrasil's sound felt distinctly nonaggressive, nonartificial. Even before it was broken in, I could sense the Yggy's gentle touch and hear the music's relatively unmolested continuity.

When my analog-fanatic, LP-clinger friends carry on about how much better than digital their LPs sound, I always ask them what cartridge they're using. Most say Miyajima, Miyabi, or Koetsu. I then smugly ask which DAC they're using. Most say, "Bits is bits," or "All DACs sound the same—bad!" LP clingers rarely buy high-quality, musical-sounding DACs.

Footnote 1: A fixie is a single-speed bicycle with fixed (not coasting) rear axles.
Read more at Schiit Audio Yggdrasil D/A processor


Schiit Audio Yggdrasil D/A processor

 

Me as well. I upgraded my Gungnir and it has a beautiful air to it.

 

Excerpts from upcoming review in The Absolute Sound (May/June 2017) from Robert Harley:

"Price aside, the Yggy turned out to be a world-class contender in the same league as cost-no-object digital-to-analog converters—and I’ve heard some good ones. How could this be? I can’t tell you how Moffatt did it, but I can describe how the Yggy sounds, and why its one of the three best DACs I’ve heard regardless of price. (The other two are the $19,500 Berkeley Alpha Reference and the $35,000 dCS Vivaldi. I suspect that the MSB Select is outstanding, after hearing it many times at shows, but I haven’t evaluated it in my own system.)"

"For starters, the Yggy has a bold, assertive, vibrant, even vivid presentation. You’d never mistake the Yggy for a tube DAC. In this characteristic, and others, it reminded me of the Theta processors of 25 years ago, but taken to another level. The Yggy also sounded different from other DACs I’ve heard; it was as if nearly all those other DACs were merely variations with a common character, cut, if you will, from the same sonic cloth.

"One of the qualities that makes the Yggy special is its ability to reveal, with startling clarity, individual musical lines within complex arrangements. Every instrument, voice, and sound is spatially and timbrally distinct. This had the effect of revealing each musical line with great precision, and with that precision comes a fuller, richer, and more complex presentation of the composition and arrangement, as well as the intent of each musician. The Yggy is the antithesis of congealed, homogenized, flat, confused, or thick. Many years ago I described the soundstage of a Theta DAC as “sculpted.” That description applies to the Yggy as well, but in the Yggy the three-dimensionality and vividness that allow resolution of each musical line are rendered with greater naturalness and ease. The Theta processors could sound a bit artificial and overly “Technicolored” in this regard, but the Yggy presents this tremendous clarity and dimensionality in a completely organic and musically natural way."

"CONCLUSION. I don’t know how Schiit Audio has done it, but the $2300 Yggy is in many ways competitive with any DAC I’ve heard regardless of price. In some criteria—transient speed without etch, clarity of musical line, whole-body involvement—the Yggy is as good as digital gets. Yet the Yggy’s bold incisiveness may not resonate with listeners who prefer a more relaxed and easygoing sound. I, however, have no such reservation; this is a DAC I could listen to and enjoy for a long time. In fact, there was something different about the Yggy that pushed my buttons—I felt a musical exhilaration that was experienced not as some intellectual abstraction, but at a more fundamentally visceral level. If you’re looking for a DAC that does quad-rate DSD, decodes MQA, offers a volume control, and includes a headphone amp, look elsewhere. But if the very best reproduction of PCM sources is your goal, the Yggdrasil is the ticket. It’s a spectacular performer on an absolute level, and an out-of-this world bargain. The Yggy is not just a tremendous value in today’s DACs, it’s one of the greatest bargains in the history of high-end audio."​

 

I saw you posted this at SuperBestAudioFriends, too. Great stuff. Thanks for posting it. Based on my experience with the Yggy, I wholeheartedly agree.

 

Will get my Yggy soon, can't wait!

 

I'm torn between the Yggy and Gumby. My brain says to get the latter and enjoy it with my Hd800 and DNA Stratus and pocket the difference. But I know myself, once I have the Gumby I won't stop thinking what I might miss by not having the Yggy instead.

 

I have a Gumby and continue to wonder if I should upgrade to a Yggy. It's an audiophile curse to have to continually wonder about things like that. If I had just gotten the Yggy to begin with I would have this problem. The Gumby is plenty good enough so there is no urgent need to upgrade. Yet...

 

I hear you man! What amp and headphones you have with the Gumby?

 

My main headphone amp is a Cavalli Liquid Fire. Main headphones are old LCD-2 r2 (I prefer the LCD-2 r2 to the new LCD-2 when used with the Cavalli amp and Gumby). Also love my HD650 and HD600 and Fostex TH-X00. I've heard the HD800s with my amp and Gumby and the HD800s is likely my next headphone. The Cavalli amp makes the HD800s sound quite nice and enjoyable. My amp and headphones are quite capable of letting me hear the difference between the Gumby and Yggy.

I've heard a Decware Zen Taboo MKIII with a Theta DAC and really like that sound with the HD800 and LCD-2. My sonic preferences are in the range of the Cavalli and Decware style of sound. Both amps get the music to float in space and have a sense of Zen. I haven't heard a Donald North amp yet. I'd likely like it.

I wasn't able to listen to the Yggy or Gumby before I bought the Gumby. I wasn't sure if I was going to like the DAC or not. I had heard the delta-sigma version of the Gungnir and it wasn't really my thing. The Schiit delta-sigma DACs didn't synergize well with the sound of the Cavalli amp in a way that gets the music to float and surround me and hug me and just feel Zen. The Schiit multibits are able to do what I'm after with the amp(s) and headphones I have. Especially with well recorded acoustic and other well recorded music. If I knew then what I know now I'd have gone straight for the Yggy. But since I was unsure I hedged and went with the Gumby. What the Schiit multibits are doing is the style of DAC sound that I'm after.

 

Interesting. I've made my decision on Gumby mainly based on this:

Big Day of Testing (Yggy, Gungnir MB and USB Regen) | Super Best Audio Friends

What I derive from the opinions is that the Yggy is more analytical yet the Gumby is more fun.

P.S.: Not sure if you've heard the Cavalli Crimson amp? If you like the Liquid Fire the Crimson you'd just love, I reckon....

 

According to Jason Stoddard, Yggy measures better than Gumby, but he personally prefers listening to Gumby.

 

this write up is very interesting
but please note the speakers used
804s needs all the help from a fun dac. the laidback nature of the gumby match better with the b&w speakers.
maybe with a warmer speaker, preference would have varied.

as a folloiwup, the same guys involve with the yggy vs gumby shootout seem to finally change their opinion
Bay Area Micro-Meet Impressions | Super Best Audio Friends

<<Our latest Schiit DAC shootout on Adam's Rag -> LS50s has me re-thinking things. On Adam's rig the Ygg was an easy winner over Gungnir MB (and Bifrost MB). While Gungnir sounded like an excellent match for Larry's big full-range tower speakers, I thought it sounded too laid back and easy going on Adam's LS50s. On Adam's rig Ygg had the right blend of presence and detail. It was the clear winner. I think everyone who participated in the test feels the same way. We didn't test blind, but I'm 100% sure our results would have been the same.

I'm kind of annoyed with these results. So with one rig Gungnir MB sounds better and with another Ygg dominates.>>

 

I also have a Yggy->Rag->LS50 setup (plus an SVS subwoofer), and it's the most revealing and lifelike digital setup I've ever heard.

With a less revealing amp, however, I could see how the differences between the Yggy and Gumby would be muted.

So I think your decision should be based at least partly on your amp and speakers.

 

Thank you guys. I'm not acquainted with the B&W speakers but the way you have described them they sound familiar to an HD800 owner, like me. I've heard the Yggy on meets but those conditions were far from ideal. too loud, unfamiliar gears, etc.

 

The LS50s are KEF speakers.

Looking at your rig, you've got great headphones and an excellent headamp. I'm thinking you'll hear the extra detail from the Yggy.

 

Yes, I concur on that. I'm just inclined towards the Gumby for its more relaxed (warmer?) sound compared to the Yggy. anyhow, I stop complaining and pondering around, I shall report back when I got one of them. Thanks for the advices folks!

 

The only way to know whether you like the Yggy or Gumby better with your gear is to listen to both of them with your gear for an extended period (at least several weeks). The multibits take days to warm up and take time to listen to. It's a case where the 15 day trial period offered by Schiit is not long enough. So to compare them you basically have to buy both to be able to compare. I've heard both at meets, but that's no way to compare the subtleties of similar DACs. At this point I still don't know if I'd prefer the Gumby or Yggy if I had both for a month at home.

I already consider my Cavalli amp to be plenty relaxed and warm. Even with the HD800. I'm not looking for a DAC to make it more relaxed and more warm. So maybe the Yggy would be better for me? I don't know. But I suspect so. I won't know till I get a Yggy and try both DACs at home for a month.

I have heard the Liquid Crimson. AtomicBob has a Liquid Crimson and brought it to a meet. I set up my Liquid Fire right next to it connected to his Schiit DAC. They each had different tubes but still sounded very similar. Very much the same Cavalli blended hybrid sound. I didn't hear one being better than the other. Just slightly different flavors. The difference is noticeable, but not what I would consider significant. I'm still very happy with the Liquid Fire.