Definitive Poll: Black Sabbath - Heavy Metal or Not?

Black Sabbath are 'heavy rock', not 'heavy metal'. And I don't care what you say...!

 

Does that Metallica isn't metal because they went through a rock phase in the 90s. There'll always be grey areas to genre debate as bands like to experiment especially if they're the first of a new sound. That doesn't mean they didn't for most of their albums have that sound.

Power metal, extreme metal, and doom metal are all vastly different from each other yet still part of the genre and rarely ever disputed. So I don't think the genre became same-sounding. Other then that I agree.

Those were mostly on the first album. The first album IMO wasn't quite metal yet (except for the title song). It was still early formings for them.

I wouldn't say so actually. Metal has so many sub-genres itself, a huge fan base, and a precise, overall appeal transcendent of other rock music that it has become it's own genre over time. This is why the debate of what it is and isn't metal even exists.

Given the time of that video, when metal was a relatively new term, I don't think that's a fair example. Maybe listen to these two podcasts to understand what metal is to most:

http://www.metalmemoriesuniversity.com/lesson-9/
http://www.metalmemoriesuniversity.com/lesson-10/

Except Sabbath have crossover appeal. This doesn't make them not metal.

 

of course they are

 

But this is the argument I always have...calling just the NEW Wave of British Heavy Metal the start of metal negates the NEW part. Zeppelin, Purple, Sabbath...all metal bands.

 

I wasn't trying to imply that all subgenres of metal sound the same, only that there's a lot of bands out there that aren't any one thing all of the time and yet fit comfortably into a category. I was just reacting to the usual detractors who claim that Sabbath Can't Be Heavy Metal because they heard an acoustic guitar or acoustic piano or a harp or strings or harmonica or a blues scale or etc. in them.

 

Ah, fully agreed then.

 

But i'd say Priest and arguably Motorhead somewhat predate NWOBHM, even if they overlap with it. Scorpions also released some metal albums outside of Britain plus prior to the movement, alongside their Van Halen and glammy cock-rock imitating. Zeppelin and Purple though, i'm sorry I will just never see as metal bands. The guitar tone is just too Thin Lizzy or AC/DC-like. That mids-boosted tone just doesn't feel metal. Yet it's so debatable that this sort of discussion could go on forever.

 

Hell no, Zeppelin and Purple are not metal.

 

Go tell Lemmy that Motorhead is metal and run for cover!!

 

He at least was happy to be interviewed for Metal Evolution, and has to admit that they're a major part of the metal scene, whether he thinks they should be or not. He's in the minority on it.

 

For me, I watch this and I go "heavy metal"

 

Well some of the high singing notes are a metal precursor I'll give you that, that's one thing Purple had over Sabbath in the innovation department. Also the showmanship is just exhilarating. That said it doesn't have the guitar flaire I expect from the genre. That's just me.

 

And listen to Rainbow's "Kill the King". Cozy's double bass will crush your face and the twin leads are just awesome. That breakdown before the solo is also total iron. Metal if I ever heard it.

 

Rainbow are at the very least a stepping stone for sure

 

While that performance is about as RAWK as you can get (and it's awesome), still doesn't strike me as metal. DP never really does for me.

 

I never saw them as heavy metal because when they arrived the term wasn't used. They were hard-rock.
I associate the term heavy metal with bands like Saxon, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Def Leppard,...

 

They're an anomaly though, that's the difference.

 

led zeppelin and purple were hardrock... but black sabbath was something else...

 

Not sure how purely "innovative" screaming like that was. Gillan certainly developed a unique spin on it, but I would have to think it was definitely an idea lifted straight from Arthur Brown.

 

I suppose so but Gillain developed the modern lineage of it.

 

Rainbow is proto-metal but not heavy metal no matter how much people want them to be. Hard rock morphing to AOR fits the bill more closely.

 

Given Dio's presence, I was shocked by how little metal there was when getting into them. I hear you.

 

If Blackmore hadn't fired Dio and went AOR, I'd tend to argue that they were heavy metal. The three albums with Dio dip overwhelmingly to the heavy side, and I think that the general interest among heavy metal guitarists with classical playing was inspired by Blackmore's Rainbow. But the very pronounced and successful AOR turn of Rainbow does keep them out of the category.

 

Yeah, I think that's generally true about Rainbow. But "Kill The King" is a devastating song.

 

Not me. If it has anything close to a shuffle feel or you can play a shuffle behind it and it is not out of place, it is not heavy metal. This is hard rock.