CSNY Deja Vu @ 24/192!*

By original cd do you mean Joe Gastwirt or Barry Diament mastering?

 

Not the Gastwirt, which was a remastering. I mean the original CD, and if that was Barry Diament, then that's the one I mean. I have the Gastwirt too and in terms of EQ, it's half-way between the original CD and this latest Grundman remaster.

 

I do not agree with your assessment I prefer the Pono sample. To each their own, I guess.

 

Why is it most remastered Hi-Res releases get made part of the loudness wars and the dynamics are squashed and they sound awful?

 

What releases fit that profile?

 

I'm afraid it's because (too) many people today use those pathetic portable units that can't reproduce volumes properly, and they make music for those, killing the music in the same process.

 

Dynamic music still sounds better on portable devices.

 

What is dynamic music? I think all music is dynamic as performed. The question is how it is preserved.

 

Dio - Holy Diver

 

The sample is not as good as the actual real download. You picked the track with the most bass to sample. Try track 5 Woodstock and you'll hear a much better sample though still not as good as the actual download.

 

For example, take Piano Man by Billy Joel.

From the original CD release...

foobar2000 1.3.3 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2015-06-11 18:16:04

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Billy Joel / Piano Man
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR13 -2.58 dB -19.00 dB 4:16 01-Travelin' Prayer
DR12 -1.77 dB -18.97 dB 5:39 02-Piano Man
DR12 -0.74 dB -15.81 dB 3:19 03-Ain't No Crime
DR14 -2.53 dB -19.85 dB 3:14 04-You're My Home
DR12 -2.09 dB -18.55 dB 5:45 05-The Ballad of Billy the Kid
DR13 -3.28 dB -19.00 dB 3:16 06-Worse Comes To Worst
DR13 -2.55 dB -21.26 dB 3:56 07-Stop In Nevada
DR12 -3.06 dB -17.75 dB 3:35 08-If I Only Had the Words (To Tell You)
DR12 -4.03 dB -19.18 dB 3:21 09-Somewhere Along the Line
DR11 -3.17 dB -18.89 dB 7:18 10-Captain Jack
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 10
Official DR value: DR12

Samplerate: 44100 Hz
Channels: 2
Bits per sample: 16
Bitrate: 1411 kbps
Codec: CDDA

From HDTracks...

foobar2000 1.1.7 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2013-03-11 02:01:57

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Billy Joel / Piano Man
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR8 -0.20 dB -10.99 dB 4:17 01-Travelin' Prayer
DR8 -0.20 dB -10.61 dB 5:39 02-Piano Man
DR8 -0.20 dB -9.27 dB 3:19 03-Ain't No Crime
DR9 -0.20 dB -11.77 dB 3:14 04-You're My Home
DR8 -0.20 dB -11.11 dB 5:41 05-The Ballad Of Billy The Kid
DR9 -0.20 dB -11.06 dB 3:16 06-Worse Comes To Worst
DR9 -0.20 dB -13.28 dB 3:56 07-Stop In Nevada
DR9 -0.20 dB -10.73 dB 3:35 08-If I Only Had The Words (To Tell You)
DR9 -0.20 dB -11.46 dB 3:20 09-Somewhere Along The Line
DR7 -0.20 dB -11.24 dB 7:18 10-Captain Jack
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 10
Official DR value: DR8

Samplerate: 96000 Hz
Channels: 2
Bits per sample: 24
Bitrate: 3049 kbps
Codec: FLAC

I did listen to the original and the HDTrack version of the track Piano Man. Yes, the dynamic range is squashed and it does not sound all that good because of the decrease in dynamic range.

 

Just to note, not all new hi-res releases are dynamically challenged. Déjà Vu does sound very nice and the dynamics have not been squashed. Some artists care about their music and won't let that happen. Tom Petty is another who cares and has participated in making the hi-res releases.

If you want to see if someone has posted DR info a given release before buying, Album list - Dynamic Range Database » is a great place to look.

 

This is the first hires download that has lived up to the hype, IMO. I have lived with this album since the initial release; this is the best version I have owned/heard.

More suggestions, please!

 

OK, here's track 5 and I could happily agree with you on this one - I think the sibilants are a bit harsh on the original CD but the Pono sample smoothens them quite nicely without making the bass overwhelming:

Original CD, track 5

Pono sample, track 5

 

It sounds good. 192 khz is an overkill and just a waste of space though.

 

When I get a release like this, I do convert it to 96khz. I also remove the embedded cover and recompress to free up the wasted space. I compress at FLAC level 8. I do keep the original download, but use the 96khz version to put on my Fiio X3II.

 

That's what I do too. I copy the original files to my backup hd and resampled files to my music server. I like to use wasapi on Foobar and my Fiio E10 doesn't support higher than 96 khz anyway.

 

Same thing here. I downsample to 96kHz for my server, and store the 192Khz intact another place.

 

Mastering on this one is very nice. I've not fully compared it to my original [drop out fixed version] but in my cursory compare it appears to have better nicer mid's and richer lows

 

I have only listened to the clips against my my original [drop out fixed version] and that was my takeaway, this one is a little more made to be gelled and vinyl like. The original has a tad more space in the high end on first flush.

It reminded me of what Bellman did to the recent Van Morrison Astral Weeks and His Band remasters. I should get this and spend more time with it but both sound nice.

 

I got this and it is very nice, although mucho credit to Barry D. as his CD stood up to it like a champ. This was on my office Pono> NAD D 3020 > NHT 2.o, so not the best test ever; but Barry's is like a teensy bit sharper in tone, nice and airy and vocals sound great and feel a bit more separated, the 24/192 just a bit more congealed and its vocals are a little more grounded to the rest of it. In the end it is when the snot starts flying, say in Country Girl, Barry's gets stressed somehow, like the 16 bits are drinking from a fire hose, the 24/192 feels more solid and assured in those times.

 

Thank you for the review and comparison. My original Diament CD files are "good enough" for now.

 

Hi there. I found this thread after purchasing this album (one of my favourites) from 7Digital. Although this was a pono exclusive, that being defunct, it looks like this has now been passed to other online outlets. I have the old Gastwirt CD remaster which I had on hand to compare. After playing the first track a few times, then switching to the CD, it became clear something wasn't quite right. Eventually, I twigged after switching the balance, the right channel on Carry On is completely silent for the first 14 seconds! I have done a Dynamic Range Meter analysis and it seems identical to the pono release, barring a minor difference in the FLAC bitrate which may be down to foobar/tool variation:

Album list - Dynamic Range Database

foobar2000 1.3.12 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2017-05-07 16:30:54
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young / Deja Vu (1)
Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young / Deja Vu (2-10)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR13 -1.35 dB -16.80 dB 4:28 01-Carry On
DR12 -2.24 dB -16.93 dB 2:54 02-Teach Your Children
DR12 -3.55 dB -18.11 dB 4:30 03-Almost Cut My Hair
DR11 -5.32 dB -20.75 dB 3:40 04-Helpless
DR11 -1.66 dB -16.79 dB 3:54 05-Woodstock
DR11 -3.84 dB -18.05 dB 4:13 06-Deja Vu
DR13 -2.55 dB -19.25 dB 3:00 07-Our House
DR13 -3.52 dB -21.33 dB 2:08 08-4 + 20
DR10 -3.03 dB -15.97 dB 5:13 09-Country Girl: A. Whiskey Boot Hill. B. Down, Down, Down. C. "Country Girl" [I Think You're Pretty]
DR10 -3.30 dB -15.49 dB 2:21 10-Everybody I Love You
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Number of tracks: 10
Official DR value: DR12
Samplerate: 192000 Hz
Channels: 2
Bits per sample: 24
Bitrate: 5014 kbps
Codec: FLAC
================================================================================

I would really appreciate if someone could check their own download to confirm this error. We could then bring this to the attention of Bernie Grundman and Rhino/Warner Music for a fix. Grundman also did the 2005 vinyl release, so it may be the same source, although the track timings differ considerably.

https://www.discogs.com/Crosby-Stills-Nash-Young-Déjà-Vu/release/2408262

 

There's nothing in error. The right channel of Carry On is in fact silent on the original mix. For both the box set and the 1994 CD Joe Gastwirt narrowed the channels. Other digital releases have the correct separation.

 

Thanks for your quick reply luk! How embarrassing. Good to know that it's as intended though! The analysises I did using musicscope confirmed what was said earlier in the thread that the album is 96khz upsampled to 192.