Delving into 78s

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Ayshpaysh, Jul 29, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Ayshpaysh

    Ayshpaysh Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    I already have some 78s, my Nan's Glen Miller collection. I've bought some myself as well; Little Richard, Frank Sinatra from op shops and surprisingly in good nick!

    I have a Rambler DP- 500 direct drive turntable which I plan to modify so it will spin 78. (any info on this deck would be great as there is NOTHING on the net).

    I have a Shure M91ED which I'm going to mount on a separate headshell. I'm also going to get a 3mil stylus for it, which I know is essential.

    Any opinions? Will this set up do any justice to my 78s?

    I'm also aware that some point I will need to get a new preamp capable of various 78 curves.
     
  2. The FRiNgE

    The FRiNgE Forum Resident

    Just a suggestion, it may be easier to find a Dual or Garrard, RekOKut, Empire turntable with a 78 RPM speed. I am assuming your modified direct drive would retain +/- pitch control. Some of the vintage turntables are pitch variable, others not. Some 78's are cut at different speeds, (as you probably know) so it is important to have a pitch control.

    For various playback curves, NAB, AES, RIAA, LP, many vintage tube amps/ early solid state amps have that feature, as well as channel selection, Left only, Right only or L+R monaural. Since groove wear can be greater on one side of the groove then the other, especially the typically worn 78's which have been played on who knows what, with tremendous skating forces, choosing playback on the least worn side of the groove results in cleaner playback. The Shure M91 is a stereo cartridge of course, so you'd have the benefit of channel selection. Some of the vintage Lafayette and Fisher per-amp/ amps have selectable playback curves, plus variable rolloff, quite essential for archiving 78's
    Here is a wiki page with a chart of playback and rolloff curves for various labels: http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/78rpm_playback_curves

    and tips on digitizing 78's http://manual.audacityteam.org/o/man/recording_78rpm_records.html

    The article suggests wet cleaning ..... <<<< warning >>>>> this is not always suggested as the records can delaminate, or check, also swelling of the pulp core starting from the outer edge. (excessive humidity can damage them this way also) Some of the early shellacs are porous, so any water will immediately damage them. I have successfully wet cleaned many 78's, but working fast, and immediately towel drying (generally towel dry not recommended for LP's, but the liquid has to be removed from a 78 immediately) Despite my expeditious efforts, I had a few casualties. If the record is not extremely cruddy, it's safer to not wet clean.
     
  3. Ayshpaysh

    Ayshpaysh Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Yeah, my TT has separate pitch control on both speeds. I've been told its not a terribly difficult operation, just the addition of a resistor and a switch.

    I don't find too many preamps in pawn shops/ junk shops in my area, may have to venture into the city and look into it more,

    Cheers!
     
  4. Walter H

    Walter H Santa's Helper

    Location:
    New Hampshire, USA
    If you do a Google image search for Realistic LAB 500 turntable, does that one look anything like your Rambler? If so, that might help you get information on converting it for 78 rpm.

    Does your preamp have a mono switch? If you're digitizing you'll want to capture both channels, and then either sum to mono or choose a channel as appropriate. But for listening you'll get rid of a ton of noise by going mono, and if you don't have a switch you can just use the old back-to-back Y-cable trick which works fine.
     
  5. Ayshpaysh

    Ayshpaysh Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Freaky coincidence, I just, only a moment ago managed to find my TT's twin, only took a year.

    My Rambler is identical to the Marlux MX- 86. Thanks for the suggestion though, you were definitely in the ballpark.

    No mono switch, but I've been using the double ys for a while now, fantastic difference!
     
  6. drh

    drh Talking Machine

    If you're working with Sinatra and Glenn Miller and others of that period, variable speed won't be much of an issue; by that point, 78 RPM was pretty much universal (although that's not to say that the record companies didn't mess up on occasion). If you decide to delve into recordings from the acoustic era, on the other hand, you'll need all the speed variability you can get. My own favorite turntable is the Fons, sold as the CQ-30 and also as the International Mark I. It has infinitely variable speed up to better than 100 RPM and down below 60 and in some quarters has been described as a "poor man's Linn," as it incorporated the same turntable bearing--its undoing, as the mfr. lost a patent suit over that.

    In my experience, standard 78s are perfectly OK with a run under the faucet and some mild dishwashing liquid. Do not under any circumstances try that with the thick Edison diamond discs, however; those will suffer lamination issues. The company originally advised cleaning with denatured alcohol, and I'd heed that advice.

    As to preamp, I've been very happy with my Graham Slee Jazz Club, which incorporates switching for a number of curves. Maybe a bit pricey for your purposes, but it does a nice job. The M91-ED will be fine to get you going; down the road, you might want to keep an eye open for a Shure V15-III with the original Shure 78 stylus assembly. Not only was it an elliptical, better than the conicals that Shure supplies for its cartridges today, but the stylus housing incorporated a little lead weight to give the heavier tracking appropriate to 78s. Unfortunately, that feature seems to have disappeared in subsequent models.

    A set of varying size styli can make a surprisingly large improvement in playback. Somebody out there--KAB, I think--sells a complete kit of Grado cartridges mounted with styli of various sizes. The price is pretty reasonable (not cheap, but you get something like 5 or 6 cartridges with specialty styli), and that probably would be a good way to get a set of custom styli all at a blow and fairly economically. The downsides: Grado carts, in my experience, do not track warps very well, especially at 78 RPM, and the styli supplied are conicals. As noted, ellipticals are preferable.

    OK, 'nuff said for now. Congrats on getting into 78s; they're a lot of fun and an unending source of surprise and amazement.
     
    Ayshpaysh and The FRiNgE like this.
  7. Ayshpaysh

    Ayshpaysh Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    The headshell I've mounted my Shure in has a hole for those little weights DJs use. I can always put one or two grams on there so I don't have to fiddle with the weight between LP and 78.

    Frank Sinatra was incredibly dirty when I found him but thankfully not scratched up. Water and dish washing liquid worked a treat.
     
    The FRiNgE likes this.
  8. Ayshpaysh

    Ayshpaysh Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Also, the Shure tracks at 0.75- 1.5 grams. Where would I want to be for 78s?
     
  9. drh

    drh Talking Machine

    Generally speaking, heavier is better.
     
  10. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    A Shure N78S stylus (2.5 mil) will fit your M91ED body.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine