Demoing Harbeth Super HL5 Plus against my Harbeth M30.1s

Thanks to my local Harbeth/Blue Circle dealer (Don Leman Audio), I'm demoing the latest iteration of the venerable HL5, the Super HL5 Plus.
This is the updated version featuring a new Radial 2 mid/bass driver and new crossover network.
Specs are here:

http://www.harbeth.co.uk/uk/index.php?section=products&page=superhl5plus&model=Super HL5plus

After hearing these at Don's home I became rather smitten with them and wanted to see how they would fare in a head-to-head against my Harbeth M30.1s in my modest, mostly untreated space.

I just got the speakers set up yesterday afternoon, so I'll post more pix and listening thoughts as my time with the 5 Plus continues.

Right out of the gate, first impressions are that the 5 Plus has a slightly bigger soundstage (to be expected with their much larger cabinets), slightly deeper bass response, and a somewhat smoother frequency extension on the top end (Super Tweeter). They are more laid back than the 30.1s in their presentation, but seem to lack the cohesion and immediacy of the M30.1s, the jump factor if you will. These are just quick impressions based on a few hours listening with a mix of rock, jazz, acoustic and vocals.
The midrange, like all Harbeths, is to die for, as is detail and transparency to the recording.

The fit and finish of the 5 Plus, like the M30.1, is incredible.
While just plain boxes they may be, they are built like tanks and have impeccable attention to detail in their construction. Came double-boxed, very well packed. Using the dedicated Skylan stands with them.

 

weird. literally just closed a browser tab looking at both of these speakers. good timing

thanks for the impressions. look foward to more

 

Looking forward to reading your impressions as time goes on. I ended up going with Devore O/93s, but I was really really close to pulling the trigger on the Super HL5+. If I ever get to the point where I can justify owning two systems, I'll probably own the Harbeths

 

What amp are you running with the O/93s?

 

Line Magnetic 518ia (this combo is looking like a modern day classic heh).

 

Very nice amp. 22 watts for the O/93 provides some nice heft I imagine?

 

Big size difference.

 

They seem a bit close together. Why not spread them out a bit?

 

I really thought I was going to go Harbeth when I bought my last speakers, and auditioned all but the P3ESR multiple times. My favorites were definitely the Monitor 30 and the Super HL5. These are now, of course, superseded models, but I would say that my impressions of them are essentially similar to yours.

I missed the extended bass of the larger SHL5's, and the bit of woofy warmth they had to go with it, but would have chosen the Monitor 30's detailed treble any day. What I mean by detail here is INNER detail, not extended highs necessarily. I didn't, with the older versions, feel that, even with the super tweeter, there was much to show for the extra driver's presence, honestly.

Haven't heard the new versions.

 

that's some serious toe-in

they do look the business!

 

That was just for a quick pic to show the difference in sizes... for listening the speakers are set up where the M30.1s are in the picture.
Lots of scotch tape marking three different speaker positions on the floor

 

I would agree with you on most of your points!

 

Really looking forward to your impression. I have Compact 7's and have considered upgrading to the 5 Plus.

 

play em both at the same time!

I wish they had a version of the Super H with the M 30.1 tweeter.

 

This even sounds good through my computer speakers



Edit: Just in case anyone's interested in the other gear:

McIntosh c2300 Preamp
Manley Snapper Mono Blocks with partial triode (UltraLinear) EL-34 output stage ~ 100 watts into 5 Ohms seems like an ideal pairing for Harbeths.

 

I mentioned this in the other thread as from what I've read the 30.1 is better (perhaps smoother while still retaining excellent detail) on the top compared to the 5.

 

I've had them set up so I can "hot-swap" out the cables for back-to-back plays. Not ideal, but only takes 30 seconds to do, so pretty good for comparisons IMO.

 

Please don't get offended but I find your upgrade path strange? First you get some perfectly good speakers , then you buy an amp that is good but " you " say is not well suited to your speakers & your turntable although good is not in keeping with the other components . In other words forget about the big Harbeths & upgrade your turntable.

 

I mentioned to Rafe in another conversation that I really liked the SHL 5 a couple of years ago, when auditioning with a Simaudio Moon 600i. Excellent combination, but after hearing the 30.1s and especially Proac D40Rs, the SHL 5 seemed a little disconnected between the bass/mids and the upper frequencies. The sound was less 'Hifi' through the 30.1s and especially the Proacs. The latter two had a tightness and cohesion that isn't super obvious at first but is hard to lose once you acclimatize to it.

The soundstage and image size was also superior on the Proacs, but to be fair, they are larger and twice the money of the SHL5s. I ended up selling the Proacs as I switched to 300b tube power and the Proacs really respond to clean, high power.

I am hoping to swing by Rafes place to have a listen to both pairs of Harbeths. It should be fun

That being said, as good as the Harbeths are, my gut tells me that Audio Note AN-Es or especially AN-Js would work really well in his space. I just listened to half a dozen songs on some new AN-Es and they have the warmth that Rafe likes and a good amount of bass even at low volumes. Of course their cabinets are the same size or bigger than SHL 5+ speakers, so that helps. They sure would match his OTO SE amp well

 

You could stack 'em

 

I see your point and while he's experimenting (lots of us do it), it can get very expensive. I think a lot of people who buy Harbeths try lots of amps with them. IMO both brands (Harbeth/Audio Note Amps) are great examples in the industry and while I imagine they are a good fit, they're probably not optimum together and are not going to give the dynamics of a more matched combo or bring out their best in either case.

If I had any advice to give I would suggest to pick a path and build around it. If you're going to stay low powered S.E.T. than you should demo more efficient speaker brands such as the AN, Devores and others of that efficiency. If the Harbeths still sound better to your ears than those offereings than it's time to think about amplification that can give the dynamic headroom that brings out the best in Harbeths. I would say that at least 25 tube watts and 50 ss watts would be good starting points for Harbeth. Once you've got the dynamic headroom and synergy nailed down between the speaker and amp that is when I would look to better sources, tweaks, etc.

When I mentioned in another thread that a guy gave up his Shindo mono blocks because they didn't drive his Harbeth's to a degree of satisfaction someone called him crazy ... but in fact, I think he is quite the opposite. After a lot of speaker demoing he found that the best speakers to his ears were Harbeth 40.1s and nothing sounded better. So that is the path he chose to build his system around. The Shindo amps were not a good fit so they had to go and he found the best pairing to be vintage McIntosh. This is a great example of two well respected brands on their own (Shindo/Harbeth), but yet some offereings in both lines don't have good symetry together and can't bring out the best in either's case.

 

Excellent advice Beowulf. I would personally upgrade the source first, but then I'm not one to always follow my own advice!

 

Which do you prefer...The Harbeths or the B&W's?

 

LOL, I wish I had both those speakers in my room going head to head. That video is from a guy I've chatted with a couple times and he has gone through an amazing array of high end speakers including the Harbeth and B&W shown, but also the top models from PMC, Vienna Acoustics and Tannoy to name a few others. He gave high praise to the Harbeth and VAs, but eventually settled on Tannoy Westminster I believe.

 

Not offended in the least.
What's strange?
I've been documenting my slow climb up the hi fi ladder in these forums for years.
I demoed and owned a lot of high end amps (Sugden Lavardin, Sonneter, Rega, Blue Circle, Peachtree, etc.) before deciding on the Audio Note amp and pre-amp, which I demoed with Harbeth M30.1s... the AN UK kit killed any solid state I'd heard with the Harbeth's.
I love the Harbeth sound (or lack of sound!) and had the P3ESR before moving up to the M30.1 (which I decided on after demoing the C7, and the SHL-5).
The amp drives the speakers no problem, I only ever had a curiosity about more efficient speakers after so many said "you must use high-efficiency speakers with SET amps..." listen, you go with what sounds great. Whatever, however you end up there, it's your own road to travel.
You say "your turntable although good is not in keeping with the other components."
Oh really? Have you heard it in my system? Should I get a Michell like you?
I certainly won't be forgetting the Harbeths, as I doubt anyone who has heard them would.
Again, no offense taken, but I just can't begin to take you seriously.