Denon DVD 2910

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by DHamilton, Jan 3, 2018.

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  1. caupina

    caupina Forum Resident

    Location:
    Santiago, Chile
    When you use HDMI the player is sending the signal undecoded so the receiver's DACs do the decoding...if you want the decoding done by the player you have to use RCAs.
     
  2. caupina

    caupina Forum Resident

    Location:
    Santiago, Chile
    To be honest I can't say there's much difference and the reason behind it is that on both instances the players were connected using Denon Link so the receiver was doing the decoding....now the reviews the 3930 got back then were very good that you could certainly infer that it was a step above the 2930 so when I had the chance to find a used unit for a very good price I bought it right on the spot.
     
  3. JimW

    JimW In the Process of Becoming

    Location:
    Charlottesville VA
    Yes- analog L&R outputs into AVR to get HDCD.

    I have some bad news: you won't be able to do 5.1 sacd on your system: my aging memory failed me. The 2930 won't pass dsd over hdmi and it doesn't decode dsd and pass it as PCM over hdmi as I stated previously.

    I had to use the analog outs to get sacd 5.1 sound from my 2930. That's why I was trying to switch between hdmi and analog outs: analog out for sacd and hdmi for everything else. It was such a pain to switch that I gave up and just used hdmi and pressed my original universal player back into service merely for sacd surround playback.

    I'm sorry for the bad info and even sorrier for the predicament you're in...

    Any chance you can still return your AVR and get one that has 5.1 inputs? To get 5.1 analog inputs, a new AVR would be pricey, but if you're willing to go used, you can find some great deals.

    Sorry again...
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
  4. JimW

    JimW In the Process of Becoming

    Location:
    Charlottesville VA
    I appreciate the honesty. The 39 probably had better DACs, but you wouldn't know it using DL. Even though I had 2 Denon AVRs, neither were high enough to have DL (a 2805, then a 2930 to step up to hdmi). The DL connection was said to be optimum. Your 39 into the 43 must sound terrific.

    I guess since you used DL, you missed my mistake in that it will play sacd 5.1 over hdmi. The hdmi spec was too low on the 29.
     
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  5. DHamilton

    DHamilton Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
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    thank you for all the info. I am enjoying my AVR very much so and might look out for a used AVR with 5.1 analog input further on down the line. I currently do not own any SACD's so I am not that annoyed. However just to be clear, I do not need these 5.1 analog inputs to enjoy the fully decoded HDCD's, correct? I can just simply connect the 2910 to my AVR using the standard 2.0 channel RCA's and will receive the decoded content? Dang this stuff is complicated... :realmad:
     
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  6. JimW

    JimW In the Process of Becoming

    Location:
    Charlottesville VA
    That is correct. That will get you hdcd.

    I'm glad you're not stuck w/ sacd's that you can't play back in their full 5.1 glory, but I hope you sample some surround sound. There's plenty available that's not on sacd: dvd-a is the best, also dvd-v and dts cd's. I don't know your music tastes, but if you're into classic rock, there's tons of stuff available (that seems to be the genre most re-mixed into surround- probably b/c the surround niche is mostly old men like me who were teens in the 70's). I just hope classical isn't your main fave, as those seem to be predominantly on sacd.

    If you sample surround and get hooked and want sacd surround capability, it'd be cheaper to replace the 2910 than get a new receiver. A player with a higher hdmi spec (3 I think???) will pass sacd 5.1 sound over hdmi. You can find used Oppo's fairly cheap- and they have world-class service. At one time, you could send them a unit and they'd repair whatever it needed and ship it back to you for $35! Though I don't know if that's still the case.

    Yes, this stuff is complicated. HDMI was supposed to make things simpler, but that has not been my experience. Personally, I think it was more about copy protection and achieving another avenue for planned obsolescence- but that's for another thread...

    But I have gotten a hold on most of this stuff. But when you get into using computers to rip, store, decode and pass MCH, that's where I'm lost. But I haven't really dove in yet. Only experience and the helpfulness of people on forums like this will accomplish the knowledge level needed to fully utilize this modern technology.

    There's plenty of frustration- as you've already seen- but the learning curve for MCH is not steep. And the frustration is well worth it, once you sit down in the sweet spot and are engulfed in a fave album, with all the instruments having much more space to breathe.
     
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  7. DHamilton

    DHamilton Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
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    Thank you for the advice, I will definitely look into getting one of those OPPO players at some point. I really went for this Denon to get the HDCD decoding (all the others with this were either too expensive or not working). I am also curious as to how my Dual Disk 5.1 dvd sides will work on this player. I have a few that I would like to check out (NIN-Downward Spiral/ Ben Folds - Songs for Silverman / Massive Attack - Collected : might not be 5.1 and the Devils Rejects Soundtrack). Am I going to run into the same issue that we were discussing with the SACD's? Or will these discs play 5.1 on my current set up? I guess I am confused because my AVR is actually a 7.1 and thought it would be more than enough to support 5.1 dvd playback.
     
  8. DHamilton

    DHamilton Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Earth

    Also, if I do go this route and upgrade to an OPPO? Where do the 3 HDMI's from the OPPO connect on my AVR to pass 5.1?
     
  9. caupina

    caupina Forum Resident

    Location:
    Santiago, Chile
    Oppos are an excellent choice. I don't have any experience with them but I know they get good reviews and quite a following around here.

    Regarding your question on the receiver, yours is 7.1 capable, no doubt, it just a matter of using the right player with the right spec HDMI output, 1.3 if you want to go full SACD later on.
     
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  10. caupina

    caupina Forum Resident

    Location:
    Santiago, Chile
    Not quite familiar with the Oppos but if you connect the HDMI output into any of the HDMI inputs of your receiver and choose the right settings on either (or both) you'll get 5.1 and even native DSD (probably) in all its glory.
     
  11. JimW

    JimW In the Process of Becoming

    Location:
    Charlottesville VA
    Your dual-discs should play fine. I'm not familiar w/ those discs, so I don't know if the non-CD side is dvd-a or dvd-v w/ just a dolby digital mix, but regardless, you'll get a nice sample into surround sound. Glad you have some playable content!

    ??? Don't know which Oppo you're looking at, regardless, you will only need one hdmi out to your AVR for MCH playback. Some Oppo's have a 2nd hdmi output so you can route video and audio separately (necessary if your AVR can't pass through the desired video signal) and some of the newer models have an hdmi input. But these are universal blu-ray players (play everything but 4K blu-ray- unless you're looking at the newest models, 203 ans 205) and they will be much more expensive. The Oppo I got for $75 is old (DV- 981HD), but new enough to have the proper hdmi spec to pass 5.1 sacd over hdmi.
     
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  12. DHamilton

    DHamilton Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Earth
    Thank you so much for answering all of my questions. I think I kind of have a grasp on what to do going forward. One more question if you don't mind. To go full analog on my current set up (2910 to AVR) how will I still retain the DVD picture on my tv? Currently, I believe the HDMI is handling both the sound and picture for me. However if I connect via rca analog cables to my "CD" in on the AVR it will leave the picture out. Or do I leave both the HDMI in and plug the analog RCA into the AVR as well? Also, I believe my input choices are "BlueRay Player/ DVD" which is already used by my PS4, "PC", "GAME", "Storm Box", "TV", "CD", "Phono" -which is utilized by my TT and "Cable/SAT" . Which input should be chosen to connect my AVR to my 2910 to get all the HDCD decoding?
     
  13. JimW

    JimW In the Process of Becoming

    Location:
    Charlottesville VA
    I don't know if his AVR supports dsd over hdmi. A quick check at Crutchfield says it will play dsd from usb or over a network, but mentions nothing about native dsd over hdmi. But I would think if it can decode dsd, then it would do so regardless of the delivery device. However, it doesn't mention multi-channel dsd, so I'm not sure if that's supported.
     
  14. caupina

    caupina Forum Resident

    Location:
    Santiago, Chile
    My experience is mostly with Denon receivers but I think that Onkyos function basically the same way. First of all most of the time inputs are assignable, you decide which one you'll use with which gear so a CD input could very well be assigned for BR purposes just make sure you do the setting correctly. Using your example if you have the 2930 connected via RCA for audio and you want to watch video too (DVD) in this case you'll have to decide if you go HDMI or RCA, if you go RCA you'll have to use RCA for the video part too so you'll have to use either the component or composite video output of your player and set the receiver accordingly. In my case my 3930 is connected via Denon Link but for the video part I use the component output as DL is only an audio capable connection.
     
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  15. DHamilton

    DHamilton Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Earth
    Got it, looks like I have some homework tonight. Will report back tomorrow if it goes well :) thanks again
     
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  16. caupina

    caupina Forum Resident

    Location:
    Santiago, Chile
    I'm quite confident it supports MCH DSD but we'll have to wait for DHamilton's report to be sure :D.
     
  17. Bill Mac

    Bill Mac Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    If you're referring to the HDMI outputs and input on the back panel of the 103/105 their functions are explained in the 103 manual linked below. I'd be easier and more accurate if you read through the manual than for me to try to explain them. Most likely I'd get you confused and not give the most accurate details :).

    http://download.oppodigital.com/BDP103/BDP-103_USER_MANUAL_English_v1.8.2.pdf
     
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  18. DHamilton

    DHamilton Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Earth
    thank you Bill Mac, the manual was very informative. I did notice that the 103 doesn't seem to decode HDCDs...so I will lose that capability if I choose to get an OPPO.
     
  19. Bill Mac

    Bill Mac Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    My pleasure :). Actually the 103/105 does decode HDCDs as I have both the 103 and 105D . If you look at page 62 of the 103's manual you'll see the settings for HDCD decoding. With the 203/205 HDCD decoding was dropped.
     
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  20. DHamilton

    DHamilton Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
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    that is great ! not sure how I missed it in the manual.
     
  21. DHamilton

    DHamilton Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Earth
    So I connected my 2910 with both HDMI and RCA (on different inputs) and I have to be honest, I cannot really tell a difference when comparing the two (now I can toggle from HDMI to Analog) . Also, to me the HDMI sounded better , is that normal ?? When I say better, I mean more dynamic sounding.
     
  22. caupina

    caupina Forum Resident

    Location:
    Santiago, Chile
    Well sometimes it's not that obvious...my advice just trust your ears that's all that matters in the end.
     
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  23. JimW

    JimW In the Process of Becoming

    Location:
    Charlottesville VA
    This seems a little contradictory: you can't hear a difference but the hdmi sounds better??? Or are you saying that you can't hear a difference between hdcd decoding vs. regular cd, but that on straight CD, hdmi sounds better?

    Not hearing any significant difference w/ hdcd matches my experience. HDMI sounding better could be due to a number of factors:

    1- Did you run AccuEQ set-up for room correction? If so, this will be applied to the HDMI input, but not the analog input and is likely the source of the better sound.

    2- Check the settings for the analog input. Sometimes, the default will be for stereo not to utilize the sub and you have to change that to get your sub in play. And/or it might use a default cross-over like 80 hz, where-as many room correction processes can optimize cross-overs for your specific speakers in your specific room. Taking out the sub or changing cross-over points can def alter the sound. (I'm assuming you have a sub; can't check your equipment, since you blocked it???)

    3- There could be a slight volume difference between the inputs. Even a difference of 1 db will fool our ears into thinking the louder one sounds better.

    But the bottom line was stated simply and eloquently by our Chilean friend:

    I am interested in your reaction to hearing the surround mixes off your dual-discs.
     
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  24. DHamilton

    DHamilton Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
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    I had a blast listening to NIN - Downward Spiral in 5.1. It was like listening to the album for the first time. I could not believe some of the things that are hidden in the mix that you miss out on the usual mix. I highly recommend seeking this out if it's not too expensive.
     
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  25. DHamilton

    DHamilton Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Earth
    Not sure why the below posted in the wrong place but this is what I said:

    Sorry for my confusing post. I meant I could barely tell a difference in the sound between the decoded HDCD passing through the HDMI and when it's passing through straight analog. I even tried the "direct" setting on my AVR which takes out all EQ settings and still seemed a bit underwhelming. HDCD Discs that I tried were the following ;

    - Green Day - Nimrod (supposed to be a great example utilizing PE)
    - Flaming Lips - Soft Bulletin
    - The Doors - Legacy (this one sounded the most dynamic out of all on both Analog and HDMI)
    - Better than Ezra - How Does Your Garden Grow? and Friction Baby (these both sounded some what dynamic )
    - 311 - Transistor (still seemed very compressed but that might just be the mastering)
     
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