DEVO on CD?

It's excellent.

 

I thought I'd bring this discussion back from the dead seeing there's been new re-issues recently. I've heard at some samples of the 2008 Japanese box set and have to say despite all its praise here I was quite disappointed - these have been significantly compressed and hard limited. I'd rather have the dynamics of the older CDs despite their other flaws.

Can anyone comment on the newer US Warner re-issues? Do they sound much different to the 2008 CDs? Or are they even louder?

Also, what CD releases have there been so far (besides the 2008 box set)? From what I can see there's been:

Q: Are We Not Men? A: We Are Devo!
- 1988(?): Warner 3239-2 (US)
- 2009: Warner 521441-2 (US)

Duty Now For The Future
- 1991: Warner-Pioneer WPCP-4170 (JP)
- 1994: Infinite Zero 9 14501-2 (US)
- 2005: Collectables COL-CD-6554 (US)
- 2010: Warner ????

Freedom of Choice
- 19??: Warner 3435-2 (US)
- 2009: Warner 521442-2 (US)

DEV-O Live
- 1991: Warner-Pioneer WPCP-4172 (6 tracks)
- 1999: Rhino Handmade RHM2 7708 (US, 22 tracks)

New Traditionalists
- 1991: Warner-Pioneer WPCP-4173
- 1997(?): Infinite Zero 9 43111-2
- 2005: Collectables COL-CD-6555
- 2010: Warner ????

Oh, No! It's Devo
- 1991: Warner-Pioneer WPCP-4174
- 1995: Infinite Zero 9 43024-2
- 2005: Collectables COL-CD-6552

Shout
- 1991: Warner-Pioneer WPCP-4175
- 1996: Infinite Zero 9 43094-2
- 2005: Collectables COL-CD-6553

1993 Virgin compilations:
- Q: Are We Not Men? A: We Are Devo / Devo Live (CDV 2106)
- Duty Now For The Future / New Traditionalists (CDV 2125)
- Oh No It's Devo / Freedom Of Choice (CDV 2241)

Anything I'm missing here? I don't see as much re-issuing with the CD-era albums so didn't bother listing them.

 

I have to say I really like how the new remastered CDs sound.

 

That is, Their first four albums recently reissued.

 

The remastered Freedom of Choice sounds good to me.

 

Just got the new CD of Duty Now, it doesn't sound as ruined as the Japanese CDs but it's still a lot louder than it should be.

Here's some waveforms of "Smart Patrol/Mr. DNA", level matched (using ReplayGain) to really show the reduction in dynamic range:

Original vinyl

1995 Infinite Zero CD: Note how the Mr. DNA part (latter half of the track) is more equal in loudness to the rest (there is a greater disparity on the vinyl) - this clearly shows this has been through a compressor (which I always suspected with the Infinite Zero remasters).

2010 Warner CD: this doesn't seem to have gone through as much general compression as the Infinite Zero release did (the loudness difference between the two parts is still intact), but it has seen significant brick-wall limiting. Note in the Smart Patrol section how all the peaks have been chopped off (compared to the previous two) - these peaks are mostly the snare drums, and their presence has been really diminished thanks to this limiting.

Again, I'm not impressed. I guess I'm too hard to please

Those 2005 Collections re-issues seem pretty faithful to the originals from what I've seen so far, anyone know if these use the same masters as the old 1991 Japanese CDs? It seems likely seeing as it's the same 4 albums that were released by Warner-Pioneer.

 

Hmmm. I'm just not hearing the same issues you are, Zilog. I think the new U.S. remasters sound great...certainly in the case of FOC, whose old WB CD was atrocious. I personally think the Japanese box set discs sound a HAIR better than the new ones (with a tad more midrange), but I've heard that those were not sourced from the original master tapes.

I haven't heard the new issues of "Duty Now" and "New Trad," but I doubt they are a significant improvement upon the IZ releases.

I think it should also be pointed out that these new remasters were done by Bernie Grundman, who also cut the original vinyl masters. So if there are significant differences from the original vinyl, I'd have to say they were a deliberate decision on the part of Grundman and the band.

Does anyone know what masterings the Collectibles issues used?

 

I wasn't really thinking about EQ differences when comparing but didn't notice anything too dramatic. However I thought the differences in dynamic range are quite obvious, and personally I regard that as more important. I used to think typical loudened "remasters" sounded better as well until I realised what the difference actually was.

I often see how these new remasters are engineered by the original guys, supervised by the artists, etc. - but it rarely seems to stop them (or maybe someone else further down the line) brickwalling and crushing them to hell to keep up with Loudness Wars standards. I really doubt compression was a deliberate decision as you suggested, more a marketing decision than anything else (fears there will be complaints if the CDs are too "quiet", etc.).

I can provide samples of the three Duty Now versions I have if you're interested.

 

I only own the Infinite Zero version, so sure. (I had the Virgin two-fer years ago. It was complete garbage.)

 

Sorry I took so long making these! Two 10 second samples from Duty Now For The Future, from 4 different sources:

From "Wiggly World", track 4:
1979 Warner Vinyl
1993 Virgin CD
1994 Infinite Zero CD
2010 Warner CD

From "Pink Pussycat", track 10:
1979 Vinyl
1993 Virgin CD
1994 Infinite Zero CD
2010 Warner CD

(All files are FLAC, around 1MB each. Vinyl sample is 16-bit, 48 kHz. I believe these short samples of copyrighted material provided for the purpose of criticism or review fall under "fair use" in US copyright law)

These have been normalized according to perceived loudness (like what Replay Gain does) - I know this potentially reduces SNR but I think it simplifies setup for the comparison of dynamic range. There may be slight variations between start times for the samples, all the sources had quite different track timings so I did what I could.

The Virgin CD isn't too far off from the vinyl IMO. Those samples sound fine to me, but I know there is significant distortion and drop-outs elsewhere which is a real let-down ("Blockhead" and "Strange Pursuits" are particularly bad for drop-outs). The compression in the Infinite Zero and 2010 remasters (along with further hard limiting in the latter) is subtle enough compared to some remasters. I think it's much worse in "New Traditionalists" and "Oh No! It's Devo", but I do not have these available for comparison.

I recently got the Collectables CD of New Traditionalists, it doesn't sound like it's been through any modern "remastering" process so again (and due to the cheap nature of these re-issues) I suspect they have used the masters from the 1991 Warner-Pioneer re-issues and just raised the levels to 0 dBFS. Downside is the cover and disc printing is quite crappy. Half of the inlay is a cut-out for mail order, and the back cover is a bit ruined with a big red web address in the corner and a wall of text. Compare this (Warner-Pioneer, cover is a bit faded) to this (Collectables).

I've heard the Collectables version of "Oh No..." and in comparison it sounds very tinny, almost like it's been pre-emphasized. It would be quite odd for a 1991 pop release to be pre-emphasized, never mind a 2005 release! I will have to investigate further...

 

Small amounts of distortion or dropouts bother me a lot less
than hard limiting/clipping/brickwall sound from nice tapes-!

 

I really like the way the Greatest Hits/Greatest Misses compilations, from 1990, sound. The tracks from Freedom of Choice sound better than they do on the original CD, plus the EQ is fine, it doesn't sound like there's any compression, and you end up with a couple of rare tracks and two thirds of Duty Now for the Future. Obviously they'd only supplement the albums you already have, but still, you could probably get them cheaply now.

 

Same here, but these are by no means small amounts. Not sure if you've heard these Virgin re-issues but these are the worst CDs I've heard in terms of dropouts.

 

Agreed. I had the Duty Now/Nutra two-fer and it was garbage.

The one that bothered me the most was a bit in "Race of Doom" that sounded like the tape was chewed up. (My original WB FOC CD has a similar anomaly in "Snowball.")

 

Duty Now For The Future
- 1991: Warner-Pioneer WPCP-4170 (JP)

New Traditionalists
- 1991: Warner-Pioneer WPCP-4173

Oh, No! It's Devo
- 1991: Warner-Pioneer WPCP-4174


I cannot find a copy of these anywhere.
Ebay for sure rarely gives enough info.
Are there places to acquire such CDs?

 

Slightly off topic but how do the new vinyl versions of the first two albums sound? And do they sound 'remixed' or are they faithful?

 

I have the yellow vinyl of the first album. It sounds good. Does not sound remixed. Very hot print - it skips at one point with my main cartridge, but does not skip with my alternate cartridge.

 

So no samples from the "ruined" Japanese mini-lp versions then?!?!

 

This Is The Devo box mini lps japan? GOOD OR BAD?

 

Strangely though they do sound good....and at least I actually own them to make that judgement call.

 

I think the recent reissue of Q/A sounds far, far better than the version in the Japanese box.

 

There's a couple more.

 

Would anyone know how the original Warner LPs compare to the original Virgin LPs? I have a few Virgin pressings and I have a feeling they used tape copies to press them, but I can't be sure.

 

Should I upgrade my original CD copies of "Q: Are We Not Men? A: We Are Devo! and "Freedom of Choice" with the remasters? I always thought the originals were a bit flat and dull sounding.

 

For a comparison of various issues, here are the CD rips of Wiggly World from Duty Now For The Future in chronological order as follows (with DR reading of the ALBUM):

1991 Japanese release (DR = 12)
1994 Infinite Zero (DR = 12)
2005 Collectables (DR = 13)
2008 Japanese Remaster (DR = 9)
2010 US Remaster (DR = 11)

FWIW, I have highlighted the clipping. I have deliberately left the Virgin 2 fer 1 out of this comparison due to the large issues with major dropouts on that release.

The general re-release of each Devo album has generally followed the same trend. The most dynamic release is Oh, No! It's Devo (which is still badly in need of a good remaster) and the least is New Traditionalists, unsurprising given that the multi-track was literally falling to pieces as they were doing the stereo mix-down for the album.

If anyone is interested I'll post some more comparisons from other albums.

I personally do not like the Collectables re-issues and I doubt that they aused the same masters as the original 1991 Japanese releases. On Shout, there is an appalling echo at the end of Don't Rescue Me that is not on any other release - vinyl or digital.

In terms of the digital releases my preferences are:

Q?A!: 2009 US remaster
DNFTF: either the 94 IZ or 2010 US remaster
FOC: 2009 US remaster (good bass on this one)
Nutra: 97 IZ (they actually cleaned a few clicks out of Through Being Cool that are on every other release)
Oh, No!: Despite all its compression and brickwall limiting, the 08 Japanese remaster. It gave me the same in your face experience as the original vinyl. I do not like the IZ issue of this album at all as a number of tracks, the worst ofenders being Time Out for Fun and That's Good sounding like they're starting down the hall somewhere, the opening sequencer riffs have been pushed into the background. The IZ issue is muffled, lacks a high end and sounds nothing like the original vinyl.
Shout: Not the IZ release that has some clicking problems at the beginnings of the title track and Here To Go. So probably the 91 Japanese release.

As a long time Devo fan I've always been disappointed with Devo on CD and I would love someone like Steve or MFSL be given the opportunity bring a quality release to us long suffering spuds.

It is my understanding that Bernie Grundman only mastered the vinyl re-issues. The 2009 CD remasters of Q?A! and FOC only mention the original mastering engineers whereas the 2010 CD remasters of DNFTF and Nutra were both remastered by Scott Levitin at WEA Studios, Los Angeles.