Did I de-emphasize my old Thriller CD properly?

I'm ripping my CDs to FLAC and after I ripped my old Thriller CD (35 8P-11) I noticed it sounded really shrill, nearly un-listenable. After a little research I discovered this is one of those rare discs that use pre-emphasis. I found and installed this foobar component called "De-emphasis DSP/Postprocessor". It added an "RIAA CD deemphasis filter" so I re-ripped the files using that.

These new processed files definitely sounds better, much less shrill and more like the CD. I could be wrong, but it still sounds a little different...could be my imagination though. Is there anything else to do...did I do it right? Some of the other tutorials using other methods seemed more involved, kinda made my head spin. This was way easy so I just want to make sure I didn't miss a step.

Thanks! \m/

 

pre-emphasis? Is that something they did to some CDs so they could not rip properly, kind of how later VCR tapes, if dubbed, the copy would have really bad tracking, unless you had some kind of de-scrambler to fix that?
In your case, the de-emphasis might only be able to do so much since the pre-emphasis may jack up something. Kind of for the same reason that dubbed cassettes just never turn out quite right.

If practical, maybe try just recording that CD, one track at a time, by hooking the CD player to your computer through the audio input jack and recording using Audacity or whatever?

 

Anyone remember those simpler days, like 45's?

 

Two possible reasons "why" it may still not sound exactly like the CD or original files. FLAC, despite what its groupies say, is a compression format and yes it can and does effect the sound. Just adding de-emphasis will not change this fact except to apply the appropriate frequency values back to the non-LP cutting master source they originally used in hopes of reconstruction which it really can't do after digital compression is used.

 

Preemphasis predates the technology to rip CDs by at least a decade.

 

Pre-empahsis was sometimes used on recordings back in the late 70's / early '80s. It's a particular type of EQ, it boosts high-end freqencies. CD players will de-emphasize the audio (which in turn helps with noise reduction), but when the files are copied to a HDD they either need a pre-emphsis flag (no idea yet how to do that) or they need de-emphasis applied, which is what I'm attempting to do here.

From the hydrogenaudio wiki: "Pre-emphasis is the first part of a noise reduction technique in which a signal's weaker, higher frequencies are boosted before they are transmitted or recorded onto a storage medium. Upon playback, a de-emphasis filter is applied to reverse the process. The result is a higher signal-to-noise ratio (SNR); the original frequencies are restored, but noise that was introduced by the storage medium, transmission equipment, or analog/digital conversions is quieter than it would have been if no filtering had been done. Pre- and de-emphasis can be collectively referred to as just emphasis"

Pre-emphasis - Hydrogenaudio Knowledgebase

 

That makes total sense, thank you. So I think I did the de-emphasis properly and the difference in sound is the fact I'm directly comparing the FLAC files to the CD. Normally I don't compare, I just rip and move on.

 

I know almost nothing about ripping CDs so I will offer a different perspective on what may be going on -

You had said the first rip was shrill. After fixing things, you said it still sounds different but might just be your imagination.
Probably IS your imagination. Here is why that may be.

When something screws up, it is violating. When our senses know something is coming, good or bad, they prepare for it. When an unexpected stimulus happens instead, it is a shock and puts your senses on guard. Kind of like if you take a swig of milk, expecting refreshment but the milk is sour.
What happens later is your senses are still on guard and even a "good" whatever doesn't seem quite right. Not until your senses let their guard down again. Kind of the same effect as when something breaks, you fix it, and then tend to worry the problem will come back right away (even if it is highly unlikely)

What you could do then, if you run a CD player and your computer sound thru a stereo receiver, just pick a song off Thriller, start them about the same time, and switch inputs between the two every few seconds and compare the quality that way. One will probably be quieter, adjust volume as close as you can for each, and that will be the tell-tale if there is a problem with the rip.

 

That too makes perfect sense, and I think may be a contributing factor in this case. I've experienced that before when comparing Hi-Res to Redbook...when I did a blind ABX test I couldn't tell a difference. Thanks for the input, I will try your suggestion.

 

It is different, your process is correct. The plug-in added the correct EQ.
Mastering choices etc... on later non-pre emph discs could add to the differences as well. My Japan for UK New Order-Low Life with pre once with the proper EQ added still sounds different than my US Qwest that does not have Pre.

 

Awesome, thanks for confirming that! Very interesting about the difference in sound...I guess for hardcore collector's that means more money out of pocket lol.

 

We have a long thread devoted to identifying CDs with preemphasis and there is discussion there of the various tools etc. you can use to deemphasize.

Pre emphasis list?

 

"Compression format." That's a very kind way to put it. I just play my OG GW bin find LP when i wanna hear.

 

I don't know what the **** he's smoking, but none of that makes any sense. 100% incorrect. It's not even up for debate, there's really no room to spread blatant misinformation like that around here.



The first step, I would rip normally as if it were any other CD. It is a rare and valuable cd, but it's certainly one that has been ripped many times before. So you should be able to produce a valid accuraterip & CTDB verification. If you have any doubts about reading the ripping log, if you post it here we can tell you if all is good or if there were any issues.


At this point you will have a set of files that is 100% identical to how they exist on that disc, that is, with pre-emphasis applied. Without the instructions to de-emphasize them, they are going to sound tinny and shrill.




At this point, with your properly ripped set of files, you can either apply the de-emphasis "live" upon playback so the files are untouched, or you can create a second set of files with the de-emphasis already applied. I would not permanently alter the original rip in any way, as that is your bit-perfect backup of the original disc.




The reason your computer's de-emphasis may not sound quite like your CD player's de-emphasis is that in CD players, the curve is applied in the analog domain using circuitry and electronic components rather than the DSP that would happen on a computer. This analog circuitry can vary and may sound different from player to player. Different methods of applying it digitally may also provide different results. So it all depends.


In any case, keep your good rip, and experiment a bit until you find what's best, or what's easiest. With a disc like this that complicates matters, that may just be putting it in a player to spin it the old-fashioned way.

 

I'm not sure if Nightbreed has a cd player, I don't think he specified. Of course a cd-rom will not add the EQ on playback. I guess i'm not quite sure what differences he was referencing

 

The differences between non proper EQ and proper EQ are quite noticeable, even when software (this case the foobar plugin) is applied.
Depeche Mode-Told You So
Not Applied, straight rip-
Dropbox - 02-Not applied.wav
Applied, ripped with the foobar plugin
Dropbox - 1 applied.wav

 

I should have specified, I currently listen to my collection using my PC, with headphones. I had to sell most of my gear last year. The only conventional CD player I have right now is a cheesy Sony boombox. When I used to listen to this disc on my Denon system, it sounded incredible. So when I played the FLAC files back, they were super shrill with my headphones and I knew something was wrong. My only CD player comparison was the boombox, and using the same headphones there it was a night/day difference, which led me to finding out about pre-emphasis. Prior to this experience, I had read about pre-emphasis many times here, but never fully understood it until now.

 

Good to know thanks! The Denon using your analog out's was able to read the tag and add the EQ as it was being played back

 

From a previous thread.

You might want to give cddeemph a try. There is a link at the bottom of the thread to a download...

"Thriller" weirdness in sound - What's the Best-Sounding Version?*

 

Thanks for posting this accurate and useful reply...