Direct-Drive or Belt-Drive - What Do You Use?

I used to swear by Belt Drives after years and years of brainwashing by the snob glossy mags. My perspective has changed completely after discovering a gem of a turntable. It's a Sansui SR-838 Quartz Servo Direct Drive completely manual unit. Sounds and looks gorgeous!

I am extremely sensitive to slight speed variations, flutter and motor cogging. Can't hear them on the Sansui. The music flows naturally. The way it should be.

I am not saying Belt Drives are inferior or anything. Just that Direct Drive done right can be as good as the best Belt Drive units, IMHO.

 

That's a nice machine you have there 'crooner'.

dan c

 

Thanks Dan. Since that picture was taken I have upgraded the cartridge to a Benz Micro Glider M2 and the phono stage is now an Audio Research PH3. These are not cheap components and they blend seamlessly with the Sansui.

This table was around $400 in 1978 dollars which was not exactly inexpensive during those days.

I was thinking about upgrading to a VPI Scout. But given the great performance I am getting with my Sansui, I am putting it off indefinitely

 

Using a 'Source' belt drive TT, manufactured yonks ago by Mike Moore in Glasgow. Never got the recognition it deserved either in sound & build quality. Top plate was a bit resonant though, bitumen cured that.

 

Hi Mike and all,

Some belt drive TT's have speed trouble (exacerbated in areas with less than stellar electricity and off centre pressings). The Project Debut is very bad with TVA electricity, The AR, Linn Sondek, Thorens, Dual, and better BD turntables do OK. The Technics Direct Drive system was designed to mitigate stylus drag during vinyl cutting and also during playback. I have heard KABUSA Modded Technics SL-1200 decks which I like better than Regas. And this is in Rega's importer's back yard. And their speed never drifts during the day. I have a modded Technics SL-1600 (automatic suspended version of the SL-1200). My arm is damped and also has upgraded interconnect cables by Esoteric Audio. I like it! I love my Girlfriend's Linn and Thorens TD-124 too.

 

Hi Kent,

I think the KABUSA mods don't include any upgrade to the arm, except the damping kit & maybe wiring - is that right? I'd imagine an upgrade from the stock arm, a good clamp like a SOTA and maybe a different mat (along with the KABUSA mods) would push this table nearly into high-end territory. Audiophiles almost universally judge these outstanding tables from stock-only which is unfortunate and very misleading.

I have a horribly off-center Hendrix album - roughly 1/2 inch! It makes for a brutal test record for drag & pitch/wow problems, yet it plays without any problems on the 1200mk2. The arm sways like crazy and yet the speed is rock-solid through it.

What really got my attention though was that your girlfriend is into audio. My wife is pretty tolerant, but that's about it! Could be worse.

 

ggaaaaaaaaaaaaah! jeez you'd have to pay EXTRA to for a pressing that screwey!
how did you find it?

can we have a Gort change his avatar status to "luckiest guy in the forum?"

 

Oh yeah - it's a FUBAR situation alright. A great test disc though!

It was a sealed copy compiling various live recordings, but I can't remember which. Early 90s maybe, blue labels, 2 LPs - I picked it up at a very cool store in Waterbury (Phoenix). A legit release with good sound, IIRC. Only side 2 was whacked - side 1 was perfectly fine(?!). It's a great album actually, and it came that way out of the shrink. They had nothing to replace it, so I figured it was either the music or the refund. I chose the music.

 

Mike, I'm confused. There must still be pitch/wow problems with a pressing THAT off center. Although the turntable speed is rock steady, as the arm sways in and out, the pitch must slow down and speed up. Or am I missing something?

 

Well, on the cutting lathe (which has a very stable drive) it's still going to be cut at 33 1/3, so I think that's why it sounds OK speed/pitch-wise. Off-center pressings, I believe, happen at the press due to improper mounting of the stamper.

I may be wrong with this explanation, but the pitch was steady. Otherwise I definitely would have tossed it or returned it.

You're right to question it though because if it were that bad there would be no trail-in groove at the outermost point (the audiophile equivalent of the "fish tale" maybe?). Still, it's definitely about 1/4 inch leaving very little trail-in. The stylus can actually drop off depending where in the groove it lands - not fun! With a manual turntable, that wasn't too big a problem.

The real problem with playback was lateral wear & tear, since there's so much force on the inside wall of the groove approaching the outermost point, and force on the outside wall of the groove approaching the innermost point. It didn't take very long before I could hear the result. After that, I stuck to sides 1,3 and 4. Then I got the Stages box and haven't played the LPs since.

 

I second that. In another hardware thread Kent says his girl friend has vintage Marantz pre-amp and mono blocks and a vintage McIntosh tuner.

Kent, Marry the woman, woman like this are extremely rare.

 

I am referring to Post #126 in this thread.

I am amazed at how many photos I see on this forum of TT's sitting on any old piece of furniture. TT's need dedicated stands. More than any other piece of audio gear that you own your TT's performance will be the most effected by what it sits on.

 

I'm not answering for Mike, but if you have a situation where the speed of the source(the turntable) is not stable, then any off-centredness in a pressing will be more apparent.

For example, i had a Goldring GR1 which suffered from speed instability; certain off-centre LPs i have, that had audible pitch variations on the GR1, now sound fine on my SL-1200.

 

She will also understand when you say "I really really need that new amplifier darling"

 

Well there was no way I was going to let my learned Scottish friend have the last word here!

 

Technics Sl1210mk2 with a Rega RB250, rock solid, no messin'....i enjoy it.

 

Goldmund Studio - definately a top notch table and its DD i have a belt drive Micro Seiki as well and a Thorens 125 but they aren't in the same league as the Goldmund. of course micro seiki made some top notch DD tables. so i'm not sure that you have to go to the lengths that Rockport did to have a great DD table