Discogs ; my experience.

Discussion in 'Marketplace Discussions' started by Strat-Mangler, Jun 6, 2017.

  1. eddiel

    eddiel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Discogs says that they are considered a Japanese merchant in their email to you.

    In your relationship with Discogs you are a consumer i.e Discogs provides you with a service which they charge you for. You are also based in Japan. Hence, the merchant (Discogs) is charging you (the consumer) sales tax of 8% on their fees.

    When you sell to a buyer, you become the merchant and what and when to charge your consumers (aka buyers) is up to you to sort out. Discogs is only charging sales tax on what they are obligated to do. Your obligation is between you and the tax authorities in Japan.

    At least that how I read their email:
     
    Sprague Dawley likes this.
  2. Sprague Dawley

    Sprague Dawley Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Sapporo, Japan
    Got it. Thankx Eddiel. Now I'm wondering how the taxman found me. Please don't tell me it's becuase I idiotically entered my location as "Japan" even though that's an optional setting...


    ... easy, I remove it and pencil in "China" or some ****. The f***n Caymans...
     
  3. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialistâ„¢

    Location:
    Greater Vancouver
    :agree: Exactly, if this happening with Japan I'm curious if Discogs plans on this with every country demanding sales tax in the future. Complete nonsense if it's a used item. They've already received their tax.
     
  4. eddiel

    eddiel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    That's not what's happening. Discogs is only charging sales tax on their fees to the sellers and not on the actual items being sold. EBay Canada started doing the same thing this year. I believe Discogs has started doing this in other jurisdictions where they were asked to do so. I can't recall where though.

    As for no tax on used items...that must be a BC Provincial PST rule as I always get charged GST or HST on used lps or cds.
     
  5. eddiel

    eddiel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    The taxman didn't find you. The taxman found Discogs and told Discogs to charge sales tax on their fees to anyone they do business with in Japan.
    Of course the taxman might still find you!

    You can change your location to China but it probably won't make any difference if Discogs knows you actually located in Japan :)
     
  6. andrewskyDE

    andrewskyDE Island Owner

    Location:
    Zack Island
    Previously I only ordered 3 items on Discogs and didn't have any problems. Also, the three sellers I encountered there had 100% ratings.
     
    Dave likes this.
  7. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialistâ„¢

    Location:
    Greater Vancouver
    Ok, thanks for clearing that up.

    No, for Canada on both physical media and audio components there is "supposed to be" a 5% harmonized sales tax for us all on the purchase price. Usually up to around $150-$200 and they let it slide because they can't afford the extra labour it would take to collect every dime.
     
  8. Malcolm Crowne

    Malcolm Crowne Forum Habitue

    Location:
    Portland OR
    I'm lp's only and use Discogs on the regular, starting this past summer or so:

    One seller never responded, after the paypal cleared that is, and I clicked the "report problem" link and the upshot was the seller got suspended -- so, I take that as a "plus" for Discogs basically.

    Another seller sent me a later pressing of a Van Morrison record ( I was ordering the old green label you know) and I told him and he reversed the payment immediately. I thought the record sounded pretty great anyway -- all of those do, I learned here on this forum -- so I wrote him saying hey how about I send you a check for what that version seemed to be going for. A pretty genial exchange, really.

    Another seller or two sending what seemed to be too-crackly records stated as "VG+" but hey those're the breaks.

    Another seller waiting around and finally responding with "sorry, actually we can't find that record in our store after all" and refunding. Stuff happens.

    And yes, a couple here and there who don't actually send the verified deadwax version of the listing, but some of those listings have variants there and subsequent pressings so there is a little fudge room in the Discogs system. I've never exchanged my demands with a seller prior to handing the money over so maybe for true collector purposes that is necessary.

    Mostly I'm satisfied but I have well-managed expectations for some reason.

    Where I live the record stores are so much worse, condition-wise, and too high priced so I'm still sticking with on-line for the most part. Nothing beats an impulse-purchase in a shop though (which explains my copy of Veedon Fleece that looked clean but actually has been thrashed to within an inch of it's life and was $20...)
     
    GentleSenator likes this.
  9. GentleSenator

    GentleSenator what if

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    c'mon they're not *that* bad around here.... just stay outta downtown.
     
  10. YpsiGypsy

    YpsiGypsy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    I ordered the 1987 "Imagine" by John Lennon CD number CDP 7 46641 2 and I received the 2000 CD number CDP 7243 5 24858 2 6 instead.
     
  11. Raunchnroll

    Raunchnroll Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    Wow I have had a very different experience with stores there. A veritable gold mine despite the popularity (and creeping dearth) of good records.
     
  12. Malcolm Crowne

    Malcolm Crowne Forum Habitue

    Location:
    Portland OR
    Well portland-wise that's 2 against 1 here, heh heh -- I'm not above admitting, gladly, that I'm a lousy cratedigger in actual fact, and as a new record collector I haven't yet developed the skills and patience for a real session in a store. So take my comments as descriptive only of my own somewhat superficial approach. I need to work a little harder in some of these places and haven't been to them all to be honest.
     
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  13. GentleSenator

    GentleSenator what if

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    you will be rewarded. i always am.
     
  14. hatfield

    hatfield Active Member

    Location:
    Wilton, CT, USA
    Just recently got back into buying vinyl. I held on to my collection from the 70's and 80's and resisted all attempts from my wife to get rid of them to make room for other things. My first purchase on discogs for used vinyl was Physical Graffiti. Loaned it out years ago and never got it back. Wanted my original US Press back. Bought from a seller with a 100% rating from over 700 buyers. Vinyl listed as NM. Artwork VG+. One side has a big scratch across it with very noticeable clicks. There are a number of other scratches across the other three sides but this one is by far the worst. One of the inner sleeves was ripped more than halfway down the side. The album almost fell out of the sleeve when I took it out.
    I'm not going to post the sellers name anywhere. I'm not looking to make a big deal about it. I just realize that my very first experience with buying used vinyl was an absolute bust, even from a seller with a 100% rating. I absolutely do not feel like dealing with this kind of frustration and disappointment again. My used vinyl shopping has come to a quick end. If this is what discogs considers to be NM vinyl, there is one bright spot in the story. I already have a vinyl collection that I now realize consists of mostly Mint vinyl that I did my best to take good care of over the years. I think I'll stick to new vinyl unless I can actually see it before I buy it.
     
  15. GentleSenator

    GentleSenator what if

    Location:
    Portland, OR

    sorry to hear about your poor experience with this particular seller, but it's a little hyperbolic to infer that this is "what discogs considers to be NM vinyl". it isn't. they have rules and policies. sellers are expected to abide by them and nowhere in your story do i see anything about your effort to rectify with them. it's the same as if amazon sent you the wrong item in your order. you'd want to have them fix their mistake.

    if the seller does not fix their mistake, paypal will help and so will discogs. most sellers would want to keep that 100% feedback, however.
     
  16. monte4

    monte4 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ontario Canada
    I am currently awaiting my second purchase from Discogs. I joined a month ago and purchased Cat Stevens Catch Bull At Four a first U.K. issue from a Canadian seller (buying from anyone in the U.S. is cost prohibitive with exchange and shipping). LP came and it is NM as advertised. I'm happy. Current purchase that I'm waiting for is 5 of the core 7 Moody Blues. All are supposed NM. and are 1'st and early 2'nd UK issues from another Canadian seller. (Sadly now hearing of Ray Thomas passing.) Should get them tomorrow or Tuesday. I have several issues of these already but not any UK's.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
  17. Joy-of-radio

    Joy-of-radio Forum Resident

    I've been burned numerous times by unscrupulous discogs marketplace sellers misrepresenting item condition.
    The latest incident involved a seller named "twelveinchjunkie" who advertised a CD edition of "The Best Of Frankie Lymon & The Teenagers" as M >>>>>SEALED<<<<<. The item is a reseal in VG+/EX condition at best. I had had enough and rated the seller negatively. The seller devilishly responded by rating me negatively despite my prompt payment fulfilling my obligation. The seller also wrote me a snarky letter. Here's the rub. If the seller agrees to refund, the order is cancelled and the opportunity to rate is negated. The seller then continues their deceptive practices of selling reseals. The seller explained that they sold the item the way they acquired it. That's unacceptable! Sellers are responsible for accurately describing items. I believe this seller knew the item was a reseal. I suspected such by the way it was sealed before I unsealed it.

    When I was a very active eBay seller, I immediately rated buyers positively upon receipt of their payment because they met their end of the deal. To withold positive ratings from buyers who promptly pay is wicked. Sellers do such so they can retaliate if they receive a negative rating.

    Anyhow, I requested a rating review. If the reviewer has common sense and scruples, I expect that my negative rating will be removed.
     
    Giacomo Belbo likes this.
  18. Joy-of-radio

    Joy-of-radio Forum Resident

    I agree to an extent, but ratings are intended to keep sellers on their toes and maintaining high levels of integrity. Most people are inherently lazy and deceitful. The rating system is a great tool and should be used liberally.
     
  19. eddiel

    eddiel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Not to rub salt in your wounds but judging by the feedback, you forgot about one of Discogs feedback rules.

    You left negative feedback without ever contacting the seller and Discogs asks that buyers wait to leave feedback after a seller has been contacted and given the chance to make things right. The feedback you left for the seller will probably be removed as well, either automatically or if the seller asks for it to be reviewed.

    His feedback wasn't actually technically retaliatory either. He should've asked for a feedback review rather than post that but what he posted was the truth isn't it? i.e. you didn't contact him about the issue and left negative feedback instead. Not giving sellers a chance is frowned upon there and you wouldn't get much sympathy if you posted this same post in their marketplace forum.

    Chances are both feedbacks will be removed either automatically or because the seller asks for it eventually.
     
  20. Joy-of-radio

    Joy-of-radio Forum Resident

    Good points, but if the seller had dispatched the item as advertised, we wouldn't be having this conversation. The fact of the matter is that we now live in a very politically correct world where everybody seems to be of the belief that they're deserving of multiple chances. I've been burned in this fashion enough times to know that this kind of deception is trending. That's not good business. I will happily eat that negative feedback so that others will be warned of the seller's unscrupulous business practices.
     
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  21. eddiel

    eddiel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    I don't think giving someone a chance to put things right has anything to do with political correctness. I've been burned many times too, just like you have, but when it happens I can't take all the annoyance from other times and project it onto the current situation. Sellers deserve a chance to make it right, at least once anyway. As buyers we all think we're wonderful people but there are plenty of bad buyers out there too.

    As it stands, your feedback likely won't make much of a difference to the sellers sales. You claimed it was a reseal and he's said that if you had told him he'd have refunded you. Buyers will take that as a positive assuming they even read the feedback details.

    BTW, keep in mind that some sellers have their store set to reject purchases from buyers with low feedback %'s and your might get caught up in that as its quite low because of that one feedback.
     
  22. Joy-of-radio

    Joy-of-radio Forum Resident

    If that's so, they're shooting themselves in the foot. No one has ever turned away from my money! :)
     
  23. tmtomh

    tmtomh Forum Resident

    This seems to be the source of your difficulties. If you proceed from that blanket assumption, then you are going to impugn bad motives to sellers by default. What you don't seem to get (or care about?) is that feedback and buyer/seller protections exist not because people are inherently bad or good, but rather because most of the time people's motivations are unknowable and therefore irrelevant.

    So on that basis, discogs asks buyers to contact sellers before leaving negative feedback. The seller is will resolve the issue, or they won't. Then you can move on if they resolve it, or file a PayPal claim and give them negative feedback if they don't.

    If you want to skip all that and go right to negative feedback because "most people are inherently lazy and deceitful" and you think a neg will "keep the seller on their toes," that is of course your right. But it very likely will not have the effect you desire - being contacted by a displeased buyer and having to remedy the situation tends to be a much better motivator of good seller behavior than receiving a negative feedback without even first being contacted. Receiving a "blind negative" like that tends to make sellers discount the buyer's point of view (often with good reason).

    And don't be surprised when discogs removes the neg you left for the seller; or when the seller leaves you a neg as happened here; or when people here express disagreement with the point of view you express in your comments about it here.
     
  24. goodpickins

    goodpickins Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Montreal
    Hello, I have been a long time reader of these forums but never felt compelled to write anything until seeing this thread.
    I think Discogs' database is a wonderful resource. But I'm finished buying there. As it has gathered up a massive share of the vinyl marketplace, it now teems with incompetent or unscrupulous sellers.

    I dont consider myself a "fussy" collector insofar as I expect perfection or anything close to it. I learned to expect that when an item was accurately graded that it was a pleasant surprise. But I do expect to recieve the actual item I pay for. Im not talking about minutia like etchings or plants (of course I am not dismissing these either, they are very important for many collectors, not so much for me.

    As the large stores have moved onto discogs over the last decade, it's become a dice roll. I couldnt count how many times I received reissues listed as originals, wrong coloured vinyl, wrong items altogether. Even after politely asking beforehand. I recently saw 7 copies of a recent cardinal fuzz reissue of a rare (run of 100) original listing. They were nearly all sealed (the originals werent even issued sealed) so I contacted the sellers to ask if they were the opriginal numbered copies. Most didnt reply, a couple did and moved their item to the correct listing. Not one of them were the original copy, which not only rips people off (it's an ordeal sending things back and good luck with your shipping money) it also completely distorts the value of thse items. Of course it is difficult selling online. Im not talking about honest mistakes. These are things that are obvious even to a complete novice.

    They have giant wholesalers listing dozens of the same item under whatever issue they prefer. They have recently allowed drop shipping on a massive scale. There is one company with hundreds of thousands of listings that they will "source", they dont have them, so even the guys you are ordering from arent sure what they are selling.

    People are absolving discogs in this thread for any blame in this. after all, they just provide the marketplace. Well they do have at least the responsibility to step up hen there is a problem. They will, but only if you are a seller. This talk about buying only from sellers with 100 percent feedback. How realistic is it for someone to have 1000s of sales and 100 percent feedback? Their game is rigged. If an unwitting customer leaves what he feels is an honest feedback without any contact it will be removed. Ok, sure, an attempt to give a seller a chance to fix things up is good behaviour. But a lot of times if you are sent the wrong item you are simply told to send it back, at your expense, often costing more than the item itself. What kind of feedback does that merit? is it a positive experience fro me to lose money? Buit hey they made the effort, the feedback will absolutely be removed if I was to leave a negative feedback, its in their TOS. All the seller has to do is say "send it back" for a refund and hes covered himself.

    Thyere was one notorious event. Im sure there have been many others that werent noticed or I didnt read about. But this one was so grotesque it couldnt be covered up. They removed all of one sellers negative feedbacks. I dont rmeember how many but if it wasnt over 100 it was around there. All in one fell swoop. The users howled in the forums but no explanation was ever given. It was a slap in the face not only to buyers but to sellers who work hard an hoinestly to maintaina true 100 percent. How did this come about? Was there money exchanged? Who knows? Their feedback is an illusion to encourage sales, plain and simple.. They remove it without any explanation on a daily basis.

    I think they feel immune to any criticism now. Maybe there are because as bad as it is, it's surpassed ebay as the destination for collectors. Can anyone recommend alternatives (other than ebay of course). Ive been checking out reverblp but the selection is dwarfed by discogs. I havent bought anything there yet but I have bought gear and their customer service is top notch, i dont imagine the LP side would be any different. Discogs support is all but non-exiistent. also I found the shipping rates difficult to understand. I looked at 7"s in my own country and saw shipping rates 4x more than actual cost. I think this is because they have to set a single rate per region regardless of the item, so they have to price an LP (or even a double LP) the same as a 45. I havent figured it out. Has anyone had any experience there and if so how did it compare. Also are there any other alternatives aside from micro-markets? I ditn set out to write a hatchet piece, like I said I admre what discogs has done as an educatonal tool. But decadence has set in their business model and Im through buying there even if it means missing things I want.
     
    Skychan likes this.
  25. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Toronto
    I don't absolve them of any responsibility. I've seen some sellers with feedback ratings of 70% who are still allowed to sell there. In the end, just like any other business, it's all about the money with them. Why kick a source of revenue out even though that source has more often than not ripped people off? I'm all for making money but there should be at least some concern displayed by Discogs about wanting to preserve a good reputation before it degenerates into a free-for-all with no ill consequences to any seller for constantly misrepresenting his products.

    The only thing I can do is carefully shop. I now exclusively do business with top-tier vendors and always confirm before forking over the dough some important info about the LP. If I don't get a reply, I don't buy. As simple as that. If I get a reply, I ask for very specific info. So far, no seller who has replied with the answer to my question has ever sent anything else but the genuine article.
     
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