Diving Headfirst Into Audio Note System

I'm hoping to clarify a few things without kicking up too much dust. First, let me say Brian and I have been friends for a long time and I admire the way he has broadened his kit offerings.

That said, I want to point out that his kit company is now known as ANKAudioKits and has not been formally associated with Audio Note UK since Jan 1, 2014.

The circuits are still based on designs by Andy Grove, AN's chief engineer. However, Brian has replaced and changed parts, including transformer design, (eg: the transformers on the left side of the pre-amp shown above are neither designed nor built by Audio Note), to an extent that Peter Q no longer felt the kits accurately represented Audio Note.

Audio Note continues to be happy to sell Brian parts, to the extent that he wishes to use them, but they are now unrelated enterprises.

 

Interesting and confusing. Perhaps ANKAudioKits should change their name.

 

Not sure that a $5,000 amp kit will produce the same result as Gaku-On. But I'm sure it will sound pretty good if assembled correctly. In any case. I spoke to the local AN dealer. They are selling AN-E not too much more expensive than the kits. And they do have full warranty should something happen. I guess I will go with a factory product.

 

Are finished AN-E's, with comparable internal parts really close in price to the kits? With the AN-E model lineup, there is a huge range of prices based on what are essentially parts improvement--hemp cone, silver voice coil windings, upgraded internal wiring, external crossover with silver components, etc.

I have heard a friend's DAC4 kit digital to analogue converter, with all of the possible upgraded components, and it is a pretty good DAC at a very reasonable price. I did not get to hear it in comparison with a factory-built DAC4.

 

The combination of modules, parts involved, both by design and as executed, are not the same, equivalent or interchangeable in how they add up to a complete component and it's sound. The use of seemingly equivalent model numbers only makes it more confusing.

Pondering descriptions on a page are not going to help; only direct comparison via audition will get you there. Sadly, I have no idea how that could be accomplished.

One point to add to the mix: there's been much quizzing of initial cost, but no one has mentioned retention of value/resale value. Initial cost less resale value yields true cost. With kits, a potential buyer has no idea of the skill level of the builder which tends to depress resale value.

 

They did, adding the K after AN. A minimalist approach, at best.

 

Ray, you are one very fortunate and forward thinking fellow. ENJOY!

I'm rarely envious, this time I truly am.

Happy Listening, Happy Holidays!

 

Thanks! Happy Holidays to you, too.

 

It will absolutely not sound like a Gaku-On, but still has that AN type of sound having the same C-Core intercore transformer design, but made with much less exotic materials.

The lower priced AN-E would not have the silver voice coils and the AlNiCo magnets, and caps that the Kit 04 has. But I also don't expect it to match the high-end AN-Es, but will hopefully sound nearly as good. The crossover and speakers are built and matched by AN UK.

 

This is very true and I appreciate you pointing this out. Purchasers of the AN kits should not think they are getting AN components in kit form on the cheap.

From the kit web site:

Peter Qvortrup, president of Audio Note UK and a long time supporter of the DIY industry wanted to make it clear that the kit business is not being run within Audio Note and that a separate leadership/business is running the finished product business vs the kit business. The main reason for this name change was that Audio Note UK finished products was getting inundated with enquiries about kits either at their headquarters in the UK or via their world wide dealer network (45 in total) or anytime they went to Audio shows displaying their finished product line.
It was clearly time to divide the kit business & finished products into two separate companies. In the early days of Audio Note Kits the kit business was a very small fraction of the sales that it is today. With just a Kit 1 and a DAC 1.1, the kit business was hardly noticed and flew under the radar. But after ten years of hard work ANK Audiokits now has an extensive range of products and sold more than 2000 kits in the last decade. With all this ANK Audiokits garnering a lot of attention from audiophiles and DIY’ers worldwide. So the official line now is that Audio Note UK is not in the kit business and please contact ANK Audiokits for any enquiries into kits.
Audio Note UK has enough on their plate with a huge finished product line and dealers throughout the world that they are supplying, as well as a large DIY parts sales channel. They continue to supply their Speaker Kits, Tantalum Resistors, Tin, Copper and Silver Film Capacitors , a range of C-Core Transformers etc. to the DIY world. Meanwhile ANK Audiokits still works with Audio Note engineering on a contract basis as we always have, and we continue to buy quantities of Audio Note parts for the kits – Tantalum Resistors, Audio Note Film Capacitors, speciality C-Core Transformers, AN shielded cable, AN Silver RCA’s, AN Speaker Posts, AN Speaker Kits etc.

 

Mystery always surrounds Audio Note, its like a Chandler film noir.
Who has a clue whats going on, its like the Maltese Falcon.

£4,800 is a hefty budget for a kit though,could have made the movie for that

 

Good one.

 

Now that you associated mystery with Audio Note, PQ might sue Decware for the use of the name in their Mystery amp and Decware might end up as a part of Audio Note. The same amp will get lesser psu caps made especially for Audio Note, but the price will go up due to "upgraded choice parts".

 

Upgraded choice parts promoted Peter Snells budget E /iii from the peoples speaker to the driver of choice for Donald Trump
Well done every one and a merry christmas to all the elves

 

I think that dead cat on his head prevents him from actually hearing much in the way of music.

 

First, the E/III was not Peter Snell's design; it was Kevin V's.

Yes, upgraded parts choice, if by parts you mean every single thing in the loudspeaker including the box itself, which moved from chipboard with vinyl wrap and black paint front and back vs Russian birch ply veneered all 'round. Also, the emphasis is certainly on choice, with 15 or more performance levels.

A bit of perspective: I bought a Toyota Corolla in 1980 for $5k. It now starts at $17k. The Snell Type E cost $850 in 1981. Currently the least expensive factory-built E is $5k in the US. Thus, the Corolla costs 3.4x what it did back in the day and the E costs 5.9x.

I don't think you'll find The Hairpiece driving a Corolla or letting $5k pair of speakers into his palazzo (palazzi?) any time soon.

 

Having heard the entry level Es, I would say they are a lot of speaker for $5k. From what I understand, a lot of work goes into matching and calibrating the speakers and crossovers, and we are not talking about cheap far eastern labor, here. I look at components in how they perform for the money, not the cost of the parts, but even so, good veneer is not cheap (I have been looking into getting some for my ANK Kits), and a lot of labor goes into a proper installation of the veneer.

BTW, can a Gort change the thread title to ANK Kits instead of Audio Note? As David pointed out, they are no longer associated with Audio Note.

 

The Morris/Austin Mini is probably a better comparison than the Corolla, actually. An '80 Mini City was $4,800. Today's least expensive Mini is $21k, for a factor of 4.4x.

In the parts choice dept, choosing options can take the Mini from $21k to A Works at $46k. Yes, having choices can be a bitch.

 

Todays BMW Mini is a very far cry from Issigonis's original, it is a completely different concept, there is no comparison apart from 4 wheels ,one in each corner

The AN E-sec is £35,000

35 Thousand quid, its got SPZ cable ,hemp drivers and burr veneer .....

Hardly amazing science , just Audio phoolery imho

 

Your dealer is trying to make too much profit on you. I just checked the price. AN-E SEC is £31,050. With regular drivers though. Hemp will add a few bob. As with all hi-fi products, there is no linear dependency between prices and quality. Each price is a factor of how much you're willing to spend to get the best sound. No phoolery if you convince yourself you're doing the right thing and getting the best stuff you can (or cannot) afford. Max out on your VISA and get the next best thing.

 

I might be both (dazed and confused that is), but I bet AN sell everything they produce. And I don't see why wouldn't they. A lot of people will be glad to have a pair of the entry level model AN-E (only $7,000) in their homes (myself included). Considering that the higher priced models won't be x4 or x10 times better, the entry level model provides enough.

Otherwise, Neumann dealers are nil in the US except for one in Connecticut. Flying over there to listen to studio monitors? I dunno about that. Whereas AN note dealers are abundant and you can go there and listen to AN-E for yourself, which I did. Was I thoroughly impressed? Impressed yes, but not thoroughly. That's why I haven't left my paycheck there yet.

 

I think you will enjoy the kits regardless of whether they are completely Audio Note, or partly Audio Note or fully Brian Smith. Bran Smith was obviously a big fan of Audio Note and started his business BUT it's difficult I would think staying in business with a very limited initial offering. He basically had the Kit One amp and some DACs but he was also competing against the Meishu and OTO and production DACs. Expanding to include more powerful EL34 models makes a lot of sense even if it strayed from Peter's vision Brian's gotta make some money. But I have met Peter and he's got a pretty piercing vision of what he wants and it's not, as yet anyway, EL34 based push pull. And I have yet to hear one that sounds as good as a SET so I can understand why?

The speakers are a tough one. 11 years ago I purchased the Audio Note J/Spe at a good price because my dealer Soundhounds in Victoria BC bought up the world stock of them in Black. Apparently Audio Note changed manufacturers and was selling the unpopular color off - The Audio Note TT1 for $900 but you had to buy it in silver which just - NO - I repeat NO! But it was a good deal and included their Arm 1. Previously I had the AN K/Spe.

Then I became a reviewer attended some audio shows, traveled around auditioning systems at dedicated showrooms and listening spaces. In August 2014 I bought the Audio Note E/Lexus Hemp. There really is no other speaker quite like them - the Devore Orangutan is closest - it is more efficient but I didn't feel the integration was quite as good. Could not put my finger on it but I did like them. The Trenner and Freidl Ra Box blew me away at a show but they start at $25k and that was years ago.

But I have heard the flagship speakers from MBL, Wilson Audio, Wilson Benesch, Perfect8 Technologies, Scaena, Soundlab, Quad, Magnepan, SanderSound, Sonus Faber, B&W, Usher, Focal, TAD, Dynaudio, Teresonic, Silbatone, Avantgarde, Acapella, Marten, Kharma, Revel, Sony, Paradigm, Vandersteen, Gershman Acoustics, Bosendorfer, Hales, Totem, Reference 3a, Vivid Audio, Tannoy, ATC, KEF, Gallo, Von Sweikert, Raidho, Magico, Linn, and a list three times longer...

At the end of the day - there is a lot of over-complexity in a lot of speakers and they require too much damn work to listen to and screwing around and most often they just wind up doing too many things that mug me. The AN speakers are simple. Offer the advantage of the 2 way speaker, with the speed and transparency of horns without the blaring honky factor, and produce bass like many a 4 way floorstander into the mid 20s and don't take up the whole living room.

The only thing about the kit E you have to be mindful of is the fact that this cabinet is pair matched and tuned at the factory - no kit builder has access to that proprietary program. So the Kit I heard didn't really compete with the entry level production E. Things may have changed in a decade mind you but from what I read you really have to work with the internal wadding (carted sheep's wool) on location etc. I am sure Brian would know more and I may be out of date. It may also be that the Kt wasn't broken in.

The AN E/Spx Hemp Alnico in Hong Kong won Loudspeaker of the year in Asia. That was the model I wanted but I could not swing it. I could wait 2 years but in the end you can always upgrade their stuff later. So I can enjoy the E/Lexus now and when money becomes available I can upgrade them. But my system, like yours is a progression. Preamp/DAC/Turntable are in front of the line right now.

Good luck with the build - check out this guy who is blogging his Kit One build. http://stevefolberg.wordpress.com/

I always love the parts that AN uses. Seeing those companies like Theta Data that bought a $399 Philips LD player and put the entire machine in a different box case and all and charged $5,000 with the sole addition of a $25 SPDIF out and Stereophile reviewer (now editor of TAS) raving about it as the best digital player is a reason I like to see the damn parts.

People talk about high AN prices but they offer something for the everyman - the "levels" are for the fanatics and those with uber money to invest more into the platform. Dave noted the price of the car at $17,000 but you can add a whole host of features to make it $30,000 if you want to. Audio Note always gets attacked for this and I always wonder why it's bad thing to be given options. You can buy them from like $3k in a kit to $5k in a production model to the penultimate envisioning of the speaker in a$208k version. There is something like 25 different versions of the speaker including the kits and in over 20 finishes and matte and gloss versions and well your way the way you want it. Which is probably why it takes forever to get one!!

I tried - I had (still have) the J/Spe and over 10 years looked hard and all that effort and time to wind up with the AN E. But I at least turned over a lot of rocks.

 

Good post, Richard.

 

Everyone is aware that the Neumann that is being murmured about in hushed, reverent tones was bought out by Sennheiser in 1991, correct?

 

I have no illusions that the kit will be as good as a factory built E. On the Kit 4 I am getting the crossover is built and is matched with the speakers in the UK, but the tolerances are a little looser (I think 0.6 dB vs 0.4 dB). I am buying the cabinets pre-built of russian Birch plywood like the factory built speakers, but unfinished, and I am pretty sure they are built over here instead of the UK. The kits are generally not up to par with the factory built because it is hard for DIYers to get all of the specs to tight tolerances. Hopefuully buying them pre-built will help.

So I expect the speakers to be very good (especially with the silver voice coils, hemp cones, and AlNiCo magnets, but they will never be the equal of the equicalent factory models. I'm sure I will not be disappointed.

As far as the amp and pre-amp. I would consider one day upgrading to AN output iron, but we will see how they sound as-is.