Do you believe in everything that you hear?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by DaveyF, Jul 25, 2015.

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  1. Erik Tracy

    Erik Tracy Meet me at the Green Dragon for an ale

    Location:
    San Diego, CA, USA
    I would agree with this.

    I don't believe 'we' know how to measure everything that contributes to audio.

    Until 'we' do, there will always be the mandate in my book of 'ears on' - else it is just internet jabbering.
     
  2. Whoopycat

    Whoopycat Forum Resident

    Location:
    Des Moines
    Do I believe everything I hear, or everything I read? There's a difference.

    A couple of years ago I would've never believed that interconnect cables need break-in. Until I heard the difference.

    A couple more years ago, I thought in theory cd should sound better than vinyl. Anybody who said different had to be a Luddite. Then I heard a quality analog rig.

    On the flip side, anytime I think that analog is always going to beat digital, I pull out the Neil Young Archives on Blu-ray, or the Stones on SACD. Or even the MoFi CD of the Cars' Shake It Up. Good mastering beats the format.

    So while I do not believe everything I read, I usually believe everything I hear.
     
  3. missan

    missan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Stockholm
    Paraphrasing Dickens suits well here; 'Believing what you hear is the best you can do, and the worst you can do'.
     
  4. ls35a

    ls35a Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eagle, Idaho
    Sometimes magazine reviews hype certain products that aren't any better or worse than anything else in their price range.

    Hence the expression 'flavor of the month'.

    So yeah... you gotta watch for the hype.
     
  5. Jasonb

    Jasonb Forum Resident

    Bought a decent analog system. Sounded good. Upgraded power supply for phono pre amp. Still sounded good. Bought a DAC for the PC and CD player. Still sounded good. Upgraded to 12 guage speaker wire. Sounded good. Biwired the speakers. Still sounded good. Used better interconnects. Yep, still sounded good. Not sure what the hell I've spent. Sounded good when I first had everything and sounds good with all the changes. Is it any better? No idea. I can't remember what it sounded like 2 months ago. Maybe if I roll everything back to compare but what's the point now!
     
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  6. Jim T

    Jim T Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mars
    I picked out some music, played it and then realized I wasn't "in the mood" for it. It didn't make it bad, as it was me. When I have a cold or sinus issues I know my hearing suffers.

    I also know to be true cable and equipment break in as it was just reaffirmed by my new AKG K721 mk 2s needing 100 hours to sound good. Now, they are slightly behind my AKG K701, but the best closed headphones I have owned. I dread the thought that new, expensive cables might improve them.

    As I have refoamed my old AR-58's woofers twice I know their performance was degraded over time until the foam dried out and needed replacing. I then had to do the foam midranges as well.

    Maybe the performance is more like a statistical bell curve where we start out new at a good level of performance and the performance increases as we approach 100 -500 hours? of use and then, as things age the performance starts to decrease, but at a very slow rate. It is kind of like me now that I think about it.
     
    apesfan likes this.
  7. Scott Wheeler

    Scott Wheeler Forum Resident

    Location:
    ---------------
    I believe in the power of belief.

    I believe we will see some hard core audiophile on audiophile hate in the next few pages of this thread.

    I believe in magic...in a young girl's heart!

    I believe I can not possibly enjoy my stereo until we get definitive answers on all beliefs in audio. Hopefully this thread will settle everything.

    I believe it will........This will be the thread that settles things!
     
    billnunan and Jasonb like this.
  8. Schoolmaster Bones

    Schoolmaster Bones Poe's Lawyer

    Location:
    ‎The Midwest
    I've learned how to recognize the regulars who have an agenda to push. The key is to resist the temptation to engage with them.
     
    Chooke, Dino and Diamond Dog like this.
  9. csgreene

    csgreene Forum Resident

    Location:
    Idaho, USA
    Having been around audio gear for almost 50 years, I've learned to believe very little of what I read in magazines and forums. And when people start discussing certain things having to do with the superiority of analog over digital or tubes over solid state, cable, wire, and electronics break-in periods of more than a minute or two (speakers are different), magic cables and other, what I consider to be audiophoolery, I don't believe any of it. But God help you on some forums when you state that to a true believer.
     
    Gregory Earl likes this.
  10. thegage

    thegage Forum Currency Nerd

    Warning: Threadcrap.

    I'm not sure what the point is of a thread such as this, other than to stir up trouble. It asks nothing new, nor does it offer a unique viewpoint. If you're truly interested in what other people think there's already plenty of discussion about this topic that can be found using the search engine.

    John K.
     
  11. Scott Wheeler

    Scott Wheeler Forum Resident

    Location:
    ---------------
    Ultimately everyone is a true believer in something.
     
  12. Rolltide

    Rolltide Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vallejo, CA
    I find the people who believe in absolutely nothing equally annoying as the people who believe in cable elevators and such.
     
    bhazen likes this.
  13. tribby2001

    tribby2001 Forum Resident

    I believe until it is proven false.
     
  14. timind

    timind phorum rezident

    This is pretty much how I feel about it. My experience has shown first impressions are rarely accurate concerning audio. Especially when that change is something I purchased for my system. It takes time for me to come to a valid conclusion, and that conclusion is usually that things such as cables really don't make difference.
    Also, there are times when my system sounds absolutely fantastic and two days later has no spark at all. Too many variables going on in my head to rely on one listen.
     
  15. Jim G.

    Jim G. Geezer with a nice stereo!

    I have been an audio enthusiast since my parents bought a Phillips Stereo in 1960. Mainly because of music and stereos I became an electrician, controls engineer, and industrial systems designer. And I play the sax, I have a Martin Tenor my father played in the Army "Glenn Miller Band".

    I have been reading Stereophile as long as I can remember and I don't feel that I ever read a review I felt was slanted in anyway because of advertising. What a bunch of BS. Feels good for losers to tear down someone like John Atkinson. I think the mag is done well, and deserves a lot of credit for the state of the hobby. ie top notch equipment that sells for bargain basement prices. If it weren't for all the reviews and cost comparisons, all stereos would cost like buying Boulder equipment. In my NOT so humble opinion.
     
    Brother_Rael likes this.
  16. Rolltide

    Rolltide Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vallejo, CA
    Well that escalated quickly.
     
  17. Scott Wheeler

    Scott Wheeler Forum Resident

    Location:
    ---------------
    didn't see that coming did ya? :D
     
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  18. Jim T

    Jim T Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mars
    What is interesting in Stereophile is that many reviewers like gear that does not measure well. Measurements are only part of the story and do not define the value of audio gear. That is up to us to decide.
     
    2channelforever and Dino like this.
  19. Rolltide

    Rolltide Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vallejo, CA
    I kind of "get" Stereophile and why John Atkinson, Art Dudley, and Michael Fremer all have their own role more then I did when I first started reading it.
     
  20. Atmospheric

    Atmospheric Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eugene
    I would just add that while a scientific explanation unquestionably exists, we are at the mercy of our tools and whatever understanding we have at any given moment. If our knowledge is insufficiently nuanced and our tools are not up to the task, that scientific explanation might not be knowable at any given time. It is therefore acceptable to say, "I don't know" rather than offer a more certain but more inaccurate explanation. Sometimes certainty is the enemy of truth.
     
    gregr likes this.
  21. toddrhodes

    toddrhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Bend, IN
    I tend to believe a little too much of what I read. Thankfully, I haven't wasted money in the process, at least not in my opinion. I agonized over switching to Server 2012 and over purchasing a USB Regen. After doing both, there is no doubt in my mind (or those who have heard both iterations) that I made the right decision. Now, those two choices come with some compromises, moreso the move to Server2012, but as with everything you have to figure out how the system will fit into your life, not the other way around. Fortunately I can just boot out of one system and into another if I really have to get my hands dirty on a VPN for work or what have you. And the other system plays music that would satisfy almost everyone else. But yea, I tend to put a little too much stock in what I read over at ComputerAudiophile, or on 6Moons, or at HeadFi.org. But, that's the beauty of this hobby - trying out new things and, if you make informed decisions, you generally don't pay a hefty penalty if something doesn't work like you had hoped.
     
  22. toddrhodes

    toddrhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Bend, IN
    I've always wondered this - how does one "measure" for something like a wider or deeper soundstage? Certainly some upgrades impart a deeper stage or a sense of air around instruments; how would one measure that exactly?
     
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  23. Atmospheric

    Atmospheric Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eugene
    You just made my point. I don't believe that our tools are currently up to that task. But anything audible can potentially be measured. We just don't have a way to measure and quantify things like soundstage width and depth. Given enough time and motivation, I believe better tools could do that one day.
     
    Dave, Dino and jupiterboy like this.
  24. toddrhodes

    toddrhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Bend, IN
    I had heard of a test where SPL meters were placed throughout the listening area and depending on the SPL measurement, specific colors would light (I don't think this is how it works, but imagine 40-50 dB was green, and 90+ dB was red) and the room essentially became a waterfall graph based on where and how loudly sound was measured at specific parts of the room. I don't even know if there is merit to such a test, nor would I want to be tasked with orchestrating it, but in concept it sounds reasonable.
     
  25. jupiterboy

    jupiterboy Forum Residue

    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    All sensory perceptions is within the bubble of our personal neurological systems. We might ask if we believe everything we see, we feel, we smell. Still, we make distinctions between hallucination and extend ourselves into belief so that we can function. Are you hallucinating the pedestrian in the road in front of your car? Maybe, but I'd hit the brakes just to be sure. Are you hallucinating the reading on the scope as you test an amplifier for clipping? Maybe, but if we repeat that test and get the same visual results, we proceed as though they are correct. Once inside the phenomenological bubble, everything is reduced to a soup of personal perception. We can't exist in that theoretical space, and there is no reason to retreat into that philosophical space only when listening to differences in wires. Why selectively distrust your brain in only one scenario? You have nothing better to work with.
     
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