Do you like space between "sides"?

This was prompted by the new DSotM which I've just heard. It's really very nicely done, but I have one complaint: They joined the two "sides" together, butting them seamlessly, or maybe even crossfading a little, I'm not sure.

While I can understand the desire to have the entire album flow, it was originally an LP, conceived with sort of "bookends" at the start and end of each side, as I see it. And besides, after the intensity of Great Gig in the Sky, I want a few seconds breathing space before we get into the second half.

Another example of this is on Todd Rundgren's "A Wizard/A True Star", where the two sides are quite different animals in my view, so it's really quite annoying to have them joined up.

What do you think: On albums that were originally from LPs how do you prefer the side breaks to be dealt with:

a) Join them up seamlessly
b) Put a short pause between sides
c) Put a longish pause between sides

I'd generally wish for (c), but would settle for (b).

 

I'd vote for whatever is musically appropriate. The Dark Side of the Moon example you gave above needs a longish space. More normal albums probably need a similar space as is found between tracks on that album

 

A little pause between sides makes it feel more like an Lp experience. Tom Petty did a funny years ago, where he put a *pause* track between sides which was just him explaining why it was there and how he would turn the record over, etc. Cute!

ED

 

Yes, give it time to breath like a measure with a Whole Rest would be needed in musical arrangement!

 

I chose #3 but It all depends on the musical content and flow. I hate it when the two "sides" are edited together tightly.

 

The MFSL and most every CD version of DSTOM had very little pause between sides, IMHO.

Many engineers have put space between sides, but that's becoming a lost art nowadays!

 

ED, IMHO I thought that was rather goofy. I've never purchased the CD because of that. Very annoying having to listen to that each time out.

Thanks Steve. I appreciate that. I hope others do too.

 

I'd say i was in the A or B camp - though by "seamless" (A) I'm assuming you mean the standard length pause between the other tracks on either side. I'd probably err on the side of caution and add a slightly longer pause.

 

I go for all equal space between songs. Since there is no flipping of Cee Dee sides, I enjoy a continual flow. I don't need that vinyl feel nor miss it.

 

Matthew Sweet I believe did something similar on one of his Cee Dee's...He let the last song play out till the tone arm lifted -off- the record...A funny effect on a Cee Dee...

 

I don't like a pause between two sides... makes no sense on CD.

 

I voted for a longish pause, which is my overall preference, but there are always exceptions...

I like the fact that Pink Floyd made "Pigs (Three Different Ones)" a seamless song on the CD of Animals. It used to drive me crazy that it faded out mid-song at the end of side 1, and faded back in on side 2.

I also like the fact that "The Hare Who Lost His Spectacles" on Jethro Tulls "A Passion Play" was made a continuous track on the MFSL CD. They actually DID insert a pause at the side break, but both parts and the pause are the same track.

On the other hand, Here Comes the Sun comes way to quickly after I Want You (She's So Heavy) on Abbey Road.......

 

That is one of my biggest complains about "Abby Road"!!! I think George Martin blew it there!!

 

I voted for a short silence. I don't want to hear a long silence in between songs when I'm listening to a cd. It seems to me that anyone who wants to recreate the vinyl listening experience can simply hit "pause" or "stop" on the cd player/remote and then resume play whenever he feels ready.

The worst case scenario is joining sides.

 

I didn't vote, because I think it has to be done on a case-by-case basis.

For example, the first editions of Jethro Tull's A Passion Play on CD kept the fade-out/fade-in between Side 1 and Side 2 when there was no longer any need to do so! (This was later corrected.)

Albums that are meant as a unified whole, such as Tommy or Jesus Christ Superstar, ought to be continuous. The gap between sides should be no more than the gap between songs on the rest of the record.

Yet other records, such as Abbey Road, which was specifically designed with vinyl in mind, ought to have a longer gap between Side 1 and Side 2. It's like "Shout" by the Isley Brothers; there HAS to be a gap between Part 1 and Part 2, or the "Now wait a minute!" that ends Part 1 would make no sense whatsoever. It's always disconcerting to hear the organ come in immediately after "Now wait a minute!" About three seconds of silence would be far more effective...

For most records, though, having the same length of time between tracks is the way to go.

Of course, far more irritating is that bonus tracks are often tacked on with no gap between them and the "real" album. There ought to be at least a 5 to 10 second hole between the last song of the "real" album and any bonus tracks.

 

I think that the concept of LP sides fall into three categories:

1. Time constraint of LP is seen as a nuisance, forcing any "composition" longer than ~25 minutes to be altered in some way to accomodate multiple LP sides.
2. Time constraint of LP side is purely arbitrary and songs are stacked to work with the constraint.
3. Time constraint of LP side is looked upon as an artistic challenge/opportunity that is integrated into the presentation of the music.

Examples of these types include

1. "Mountain Jam" from Allman Brothers' "Eat A Peach" is forced to fade out then fade in across LP sides.
2. "The Best Of" just about anybody.
3. Beatles - "Abbey Road"

Category 1 is mostly a no-brainer. I don't think many people will argue that the "sides" should not be maintained in this case. Category 2 should also see little argument, there is little reason to preserve the concept of LP sides for compilations. However, category 3 is sure to be wide-open for debate.

 

Where do we draw the line? Should CDs be available with the fade-outs and changeovers we used to get with 8-track tapes??

I prefer standard CD track pauses between sides. If I taped the albums in the past, I did the same thing. One annoying CD I have is a French BMG import of Henry Mancini's Combo! album. There is actually a 12-second pause between "A Powdered Wig" and "Playboy's Theme". It could just be a snafu, for all I know.

For live albums, especially double LPs, if all of the tracks are already joined by applause, there's no reason why the CD can't join all the tracks into one continuous live performance. In fact, I'm planning on taking my new remaster of Earth Wind & Fire's Gratitude, adding tracks from the same concert found on the Eternal Dance box set, and making it an extended live performance.

It does all depend on what kind of program material is on the CD...

 

When I transferred my Wild Cherry CD-R or "Electrified Funk" I arranged the songs in the running order of the 8-track because that's what I was familiar with and sounded "right" to me. When I did their "I Love My Music" LP, I made one version with the original gaps and the other with crossfades. I was able to put both versions of the album on one CD-R. God, I love CD-R technology and audio software!

Hmmmm, never thought of that! Just one problem that I can see, the box and the remasters are EQ'ed differently. Are you going to match them?

 

Good idea for a thread

For CD releases of albums originally intended for vinyl, I believe in a little bit of extra silence on a CD between the songs that originally ended side 1 and began side 2 of an LP, since the songs on an album originally intended for LP were generally sequenced with the side change in mind. In general, I prefer a space between "sides" to be a little longer than the existing gaps between songs from the same "side". Of course, that only makes sense when said album actually had gaps between tracks on the same side. Either way, leave just enough space so that when listening, there's enough "breathing room" before the second "act" begins, but not too long that you're left feeling that it's taking too long for the music to begin again. Good judgement and taste are important here.

For live albums, I prefer that all "sides" be crossfaded together, with no breaks.

 

Full Moon Fever, to be exact!

 

One thing is for sure, I REALLY don't like the "The Great Gig In The Sky" fading into "Money" so quickly on the DSOTM SACD. You need more time to switch mental gears. It's like someone shaking you awake from a pleasant slumber.

 

I think that in many cases, albums were structured for side breaks. Whether that was a "limitation" or not is debatable, but surely the Beatles (or maybe G. Martin) mastered side breaks. From Rubber Soul forward, album sides started with an surprising change of style from the end of the previous side. Consider:

Michelle to What Goes On
She Said She Said to Good Day Sunshine
Mr Kite to Within You Without You
Warm Gun to Martha My Dear
Julia to Birthday
Long Long Long to Revolution # 1

After a short pause, it always seemed like there was brand new horizon in front of you.