Do you prefer a "you are there" or a "they are here" type of system experience?

Of course that's true, you are listening to recorded music on your stereo, but the reason I became an audiophile is because of the ability of a good system properly set up with the right recording to present an experience that's a lot more that just the sound off listening to music on your stereo.

 

You are there for me.

 

I like both experiences, although the "they are here" approach can remove the hall ambience on the recording, as it is usually a more up-front sound. I want the recording to sound like "they are here" if that's how it was recorded, but "you are there" if the performance has a great deal of "hall ambience" that should be heard. Older Rowland Research preamps had "they are here" in spades, but suppressed hall ambience.

 

I prefer the Keith Richards "I am glad to be anywhere" experience.

 

I've had my system on the right source (and me in the right mood) sound better than live, especially when the performers are amplified in a bad room. That said, no system is anywhere near what Vincent Belanger's cello sounded like at the recent Audio Note event at Warren Jarrett's house. THAT blew me away.

 

This, to me, sounds like "You are There".



Via Let's Talk "Classic American Rock 'n' Roll" 1951 - 1963! Share Your Knowledge And Love of The Music.

 

I want to be taken to another place.

 

Yep, same here.
'I am here as you are here, as here we are and we are all together.'^^

 

I hate it when 'they are here'.

They always want chips and beer.
.

 

...and put their cigarettes out on the rug.

 

Call a taxi?

 

For headphone listening I'm after a "you are there" style of sound. I want to be transported away to where the recording is. Bringing the performers here to the soundstage in my head and within the headphones doesn't give me the listening experience I'm after.

For me, the "you are there" experience on headphones requires a very good headphone amp that has the style of sound that can make that happen. It requires an amp that has a deep and open soundstage, along with the ability to play and present the ambiance that is in the recording. The soundstage or headstage needs to extend out of my head and surround my head. Few headphone amps are able to do that. Tube amps are much more likely to be able to do that than solid state amps. Amps with low feedback or no feedback designs also seem to do this sort of sound better than amps that make use of higher feedback levels. I'm very happy with the way my headphone setup gives me a "you are there" experience. Getting there was no accident. It required deliberate action and choices and synergy.

Herb Reichert has an interesting review of the JDS Labs Abyss headphone in the August issue of Sterophile. In the review he spends a lot of words describing a "you are there" style of sound and listening experience. He describes the recording mikes becoming your ears. Hearing the instruments and room and ambiance the way the mikes heard it. That's the ultimate in "you are there". It's a very Herb Reichert style review. It's a great review. I'll try to remember to post a link to the review here once it gets posted to the Stereophile web site.

 

If you minimize the effects of your listening room, can't you have both? You get to hear the acoustic of the space where the recording took place, assuming that's revealed on the recording- some stuff, probably pure studio concoctions, with isolation booths, overdubs, etc. don't have much of a 'room sound." But if the record has it, why can't it be transported to your room when you play it back? I know that seems like an acoustic collision, but I think when addressing our listening room, we are trying to minimize it negative effect on the sound, while at the same time, providing a space where the bass can deliver without humps and nulls, no reflective surfaces that cause the higher frequencies to sound brighter or ring, etc. And assuming that's done effectively (I don't like over-treated rooms), why can't we bring the original recording into the room, with whatever acoustic may be in that recording from the original room?
I've had mixed results with this in the past, but don't think it impossible. My original Quads just can't do "scale"--there is no way a full orchestra is going to be big enough, and it isn't the room, but the speaker. On my main system, I can get a very 'in the room' sound because of the horn mids and tweets. I guess I want it all. But, perhaps I'm missing something in the physics or psycho-acoustics of this-- I'm no expert. In fact, though I've been doing this stuff for decades, I guess I've gotten more serious about the acoustics of the room and the creation of a "live" experience only in the last few years: I'm being really exacting about what I am trying to achieve in my new space. (We moved the horn arrays about 3/4" the other night and changed the main listening seat position relative to the speakers as part of this). I'm still dialing in to get coherent low to upper bass blend that works smoothly with the mids, etc. I've been removing tweaks, like decouplers i used in the past, to see what effect they have (When installed in my last room, I liked the effect, but I'm now in a new room, so in effect starting from scratch).
I've been talking to various acousticians about coming in to do sweeps and help (re) position and voice the system, but my own process has been yielding positive results in this direction- in the room sound with whatever acoustic cues are in the original recording.

 

Who wants to be crammed in a tiny smoke-filled recording booth with the Ramones? I prefer to listen to "Beat on the Brat" in the comfort of my own home

 

I auditioned an all tubes McIntosh system with 804d in dealer's treated room. Nora Jones was very smooth, but sounded far away, like more than 10 ft away. This is like "I am there"? This is not my current preference.

My preference is to make Nora Jones sings just a few feets away from me. I guess this is like "they are here" experience? I achieve that by playing back stereo in 4.1 extended stereo mode, all speakers and sub less than 7 ft away.
: )

 

I don't think there are systems that perform exclusively as "they are here" or "I am there". Depends greatly on the recording. Listening to Bill Evans' Village Vanguard sessions, I am there (more or less), hearing the clink of glasses, muted conversations, muted applause and the slightly dead acoustics of the room. Put on Nick Drake's Pink Moon, and it sounds as if he's in the room with me. Play Peter Gabriel's So, it's such an artificial construct rife with Eighties digital post-production, I'm not sure who's where or what's what.

Sometimes I want to reach out, grab the singer and slap 'em. But that may be for a different thread ...

 

I hate to dump on Herb but that is impossible. With headphones (unless one is playing binaural recordings), it is more "they are in your head" than "you are there." Remember, the microphones were not in a dummy head (or anyone else's) but were spaced apart and, in most cases, there were many more than two. You can tell him I said so.

PS: I believe it is JPS, not JDS.

 

I use to be the kind of realistic-thinking person so I listen to my stereo. I'm quite aware that equipment is between music and me, not only my equipment but also the one used on the studio recording.
I love fast speeds and both long straight roads and country side roads. When I drive fast on a straight road or with my senses at 200% on a coutry side road I'm also aware that my car is between the road and me.

 

I like both and if the recordings are good my system seems to me to do a pretty good job of approximating them. On a good small group jazz recording if I close my eyes I could be at a table in Shelly's Manne Hole. If it is Mahler the right recording will plunk me down in the middle of row M at the Dorothy Chandler Pavillion. Rock is so much trickier. Allman Brothers Live at Fillmore East is a great record, but it doesn't make me feel "there" and they are too much to be "here." On some of the better studio recordings I can get there, but it isn't palpable except on a very few records.

 

That's too bad. I have had moments where I forget about the gear, whether it is hi-fi, fast cars, motorcycles, whatever. It is for those moments that I go to the trouble to do this--which isn't a consistent thing, and isn't necessarily about the money spent. Sometimes, there are those occasions- you are transported (music) or so in touch with the road experience that you feel like you and the machine are one (cars or bikes). Those are transcendent moments.

 

Lucky you. As I said, I'm the kind of "realistic-thinking" guy, I like to know what surrounds me, what's in front of me and how to interact with it. I atended some Hi Fi shows from several brands, I remember a mega-expensive showroom in 2000 with Krell electronics, that is a preamp, two power amps and a CD player plus a set of two B&W 801 Nautilus (I think that was the reference), we could bring our own CD's to test the equipment plus various audiophile CD's were played by the host. I brought Boston's Don't Look Back Master Sound gold CD and with my CD and others played I had the feeling that I was listenning to recorded music through very expensive equipment which sounded outstanding, in the case of Boston's Don't Look Back, the CD I brought I felt the same, it sounded more realistic to me than on my humble home equipment, realistic, but not REAL.
Regarding to driving, I do enjoy driving, I love it, I love driving a car,that's what I do. And being 43 and liking and wanting to be aware what's around me, never got a ticket, I really mean it, never, and I crossed the Iberian peninsula driving many times. Maybe I'm a freak control.

 

Herb does take some poetic license in the way he describes things. His review of the Abyss does seem to be a bit over the top in the way he's describing the "you are there" style of sound on headphones. However, I can understand and relate to the style of sound and the sonic experience he's describing because I've heard headphones do some of that. I haven't heard headphones do it to the degree he's describing (maybe he's exaggerating and taking some poetic license). On the other hand, I haven't heard the Abyss. I have heard some Audeze headphones kinda do some of what he's describing when paired with some special amps. I'm assuming the Abyss does that style of sound better, much better. Much of what he's describing is what I associate as part of the planar style headphone sound because I haven't heard regular dynamics (like the HD800) do it. It's neat to read an audio review and say "I can relate to what he's saying". Even with a Herb review.

Binaural recordings do sound neat and can do the magic things that Herb is describing. But most don't because most binaural recordings aren't recorded well enough. The magic just isn't there. I blame poor recording equipment and poor audio engineering for most of those issues. Minimally miked recordings can do what Herb is describing, especially if the mikes are arranged in a way that works well on headphones. Recordings like what Herb was listening to for the review.

Recordings like the Portland State Chamber Choir recordings that JA worked on also do that effect on my Audeze headphones. I'm there in the church listening with my ears as the microphones hearing that planar thing where it seems like I'm standing on the surface of the microphone. Those recordings are an awesome "I am there" experience on good headphones. If my old Audeze LCD-2 does that for me, I'm now wondering what the Abyss would be like with those recordings.

So I get what Herb is trying to communicate in that review. If I ever do get to meet Herb I'll give him a high five and beg him to let me listen to his Abyss. And then ask him to share whatever drugs he's been using to get the headphones to sound like he described.

 

I don't know about the here or there but, but to answer the OP, I am more of a Sonus Faber than a B&W guy. I would want the Olympia IIIs right "here" in my room and would have no problems leaving the B&Ws "there" at the store.

 

I don't want music played through my speakers to sound like live music, because live music (at least, rock music) generally sounds terrible from a hifi perspective. This is due to its being performed in sub-optimal settings, with uncontrolled reflections from the floor, walls and ceiling. Recreating these reflections was the thinking behind Bose's direct/reflecting speakers, which most certainly produce a live music ambience that tends to infuriate audiophiles.

Instead, I want to hear what was on the master tape – whether good, bad or indifferent – with my sitting room taken out of the equation. That's why I chose speakers with the most sophisticated room compensation software on the market today.

 

I get it, too, but I wonder what he'd say if I sprung a Smyth Realiser on him.