Do you regard Green Day as a real punk band?

When you look at the history of "punk" music and the bands that were considered the godfathers of punk, like Iggy & The Stooges or even the Velvet Underground, it seems that Green Day is fairly far removed from that legacy. When I think of punk there's always one band that jumps to mind first and foremost, the Ramones. To me they are the standard bearers and what I feel should be what all other bands who purport to aspire to punk should be measured against. With that in mind Green Day doesn't hold a candle to them, but there are times when they approach the energy and vitality of the boys from Queens, and to be honest if you want to call them punk, compared any other current rock bands with comparable longevity (there's precious few), I'm okay with that. They play fast and loud. Mind you I am a fan. They do what they do really well. They are first rate performers live, and it's amazing when you hear them play songs from Dookie at the original tempos (a real tribute to Tre Cool). While the term "pop punk" is really a term that they (along with Blink-182) were the first bands to be tagged with by the music industrial complex after they started getting mainstream attention, I think there is very little that punk music in the traditional sense has in common with pop music (and not just musically-also from a socio-enonomic standpoint). It's a term I hate, but if the shoe fits...

 

Not really. I'm not sure I even care. But back in the early 90s, my friends and I used to refer to them as "kiddy punk" or "mall punk." I vastly prefer Buzzcocks if I'm in the mood for pop punk.

 

I never really followed them in depth, so, I only know that I bought "Dookie' when it was new and played it for a few weeks before getting rid of it. When I heard the first track, "Burnout" I thought that Billie's vocal phrasing was much in the vein of Joe Strummer and it was a HUGE turnoff for me, especially knowing that he was american born and bred.

 

I don't care. They're certainly more "punk" (whatever that really is) and more entertaining that the grunge bands listed by the OP. I'll quote myself from the "Dookie album by Green Day in Your Collection" thread... I'm a fan of smart pop punk, and think Green Day has evolved into that over the years. Big hooks, shoutalong choruses, sloganeering... what's not to like?

 

That's right - Green Day followed in the footsteps of the Ramones. Dookie was Rocket to Russia, turned sideways - short, fast, tuneful, lighthearted sense of humor. Besides, the Ramones were much more the Beach Boys than the Velvet Underground. Same with Green Day.

 

I may be wrong, but this is how I view things:

1) 70's punk; the originators. Bands like the Sex Pistols, the Clash and the Ramones. Even those 3 bands embrace different types of sounds, so obviously as time goes on things will be harder to define. Note though that all 3 of these bands' most popular songs are, of course, pop songs at the base - so even the "originators" were pop/punk. Thus the pop/punk label (used to denigrate a punk band) doesn't make much sense.

2) 80's punk; the underground. Black Flag, Husker Du and other underground punk bands. This is where the delineation between "real' and "pop" punk must come from (I'm too young to know really), because every punk album I get my hands on from the 80's sounds atrocious, as if it was more "real" to record things so poorly that they're borderline unlistenable. During this period, punk started to influence the underground college rock scene, combining with melodic college rock music like REM to ultimately become the alt rock scene that followed in the late 80's/early 90's with bands like Jane's Addiction, the Chili Peppers, Nirvana, the Pixies, and countless others.

3) 90's punk; commercial punk. Green Day, Bad Religion, the Offspring, NOFX, etc. These were bands whose music ultimately approaches the sounds of 70s punk more than those of 80s punk, but produced professionally and intended to be pop hits.

4) 2000's punk: I haven't figured this one out. Are there still new punk bands coming out? Is there a new punk movement? Or did the "garage rock revival" replace punk?

Green Day are very clearly in group (3) here, and I don't think anybody here (even those who don't consider them to be punk) would dispute that fact. So the ultimate question here really is the following; is 90's commercial punk real punk?

My answer...it absolutely is. It's well-produced, but generally closer to 70's punk than the 80's punk was.

Green Day have evolved somewhat and whenever they try to record more "mature" music, they typically fall on their faces - because they're a punk band and that's what they're best at.

 

I think they're not...I also think it's not important and wrong as well

 

No.

 

No.

 

They've gone outside the rigid and constraining conventions of mainstream punk and doing that seems pretty "punk" to me, so I say "yes".

 

I agree with this. The Ramones were doing Chris Montez for God's sake. Punk has always had an unembarrassed love of pop music ("I'm Not Your Stepping Stone" etc.)--that was part of the scandal of it. (At least until it gets into the two-chord slogan-shouting of hardcore.)

As for the second thing I quoted, yes indeed there is a DIY punk scene now, or a lot of them. I'm always pushing the new band Martha on this board from North East England (Durham). They declare themselves pop punk because that's what they are. But they're great:



It's hard to think of anything catchier and poppier than them, with their four-part harmonies etc., even though they sing about spray-painting ACAB on the wall.

I think Green Day is pop punk too. Though I don't like them anywhere near as much as Martha or the Buzzcocks, they're OK. I like that video when they walk through the BART station--brings back memories.

 

Don't know.. (or care really)
I've never liked then particularly, but you have too admit they had some great material, and putting then down has just become the fashionable thing

 

Of course they are. But since they sold millions more than the Ramones some people have to put them down.

 

I stand by what I wrote, but I wholeheartedly agree with this statement as it applies to the Ramones. Yes they were a dyed in the wool punk band but damn were their songs catchy. I think my feelings about punk are more from a "three chords and a cloud of dust" viewpoint. I never considered The Clash a punk band (a minority opinion I know), especially as they quickly began to evolve far from the punk paradigm. The Pistols were punk more in attitude than musically.

 

To me, they were always just a rock band.

 

No. Kids punk sounds right,

 

I'm with you there. The pseudo-British phrasing turned me off when I first heard them.

 

Britney Spears sold millions more than the Ramones, too. So what?

 

No, I would never call Green Day a punk band. But Pop Punk would definitely work.
Just like I would never call Poison a Metal band. Poison was a Hair Metal band.

 

I'll bet if they'd put out their 90s albums, never been successful, and disbanded, y'all would be singing their praises

 

Not by a very long shot. Punks, yes. Punk, no.

 

Hated them. I grew up on hardcore, and to my adolescent self, calling Green Day punk was an insult to the genre. It reminded me of when people would say Bon Jovi and Def Leppard were metal.

 

There seems to be a punk revival on the way. In the UK more and more bands are appearing in that vein again. Two of the ones to pick up the most notice are Slaves (the UK duo) and Cabbage. I think The Blinders are probably going to be next.

The new punk bands are doing well because they've got cross-generational appeal, they seem to be the new artists that older music fans and older punks like, but they all strike a chord with modern youth (not least because their lyrical content is pretty relevant).

The difference nowadays is that you're getting more female (or at least female-fronted) punk bands at the forefront. There's bands like The Tuts down in London (although their music is a bit too overtly political for me), plus bands like Estrons from Wales. Muncie Girls are another popular one. It's a developing scene and contemporary indie/alt music in the UK is trending that way, to being that bit more angry. Pretty much everyone is saying that in interviews right now.

 

Berkeley High School punks. - I lived across the street from Berkeley High when they were probably going there...

 

I thought of them as punk in the "dookie" days, but no way would say they are punk today. Their music is too stylistically diverse.