Do you think High res audio is an audible improvement over CD quality sound?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Higlander, Jan 12, 2018 at 12:19 PM.

  1. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    I take it you meant *coast*? LOL! If I'm ever at the other end of the country, I'll be sure to contact you, buddy. :)
     
    Dave likes this.
  2. Dillydipper

    Dillydipper Sultan Of Snark

    No...BUT, I believe a higher-resolution master of the quality made for a higher-quality medium[/, and designedfor better detail in the recording (as opposed to, "turned up for dolts with earbuds"), CAN result in an audible improvement over what's possible with the same mastering job encoded onto a standard redbook CD, when played through the same amplification and speaker equipment.

    But, that's probably not what you're asking, is it? No, looks like you're just looking to win a beer bet with your cohorts. But it's not that simple.

    So, let's just make it simpler. Take my first statement, and just cross-out the, "I believe" part. There, it's simpler.

    You're wasting your time comparing the medium of play, if you're just comparing them based on the album titles. Your most effective comparison only works when you use the same mastering.

    When some of our newer adherants to the "LP better than CD" issue claim they hear better fidelity in their grooves than in their pits, they don't even know the difference between the masterings on either. It's like comparing an oil painting, with a Xerox of a photograph of the same scene...judging only the differences in the picture frames.

    Oh, and while I'm at it, Strat? You shouldn't hold a guitar like that...not only does it make the notes leak out of the body and out onto the fretboard, but the sun will dim the finish in an unnatural way. :D
     
    Strat-Mangler likes this.
  3. testikoff

    testikoff Forum Resident

    There you go... ;)
     
  4. Tony Plachy

    Tony Plachy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pleasantville, NY
    I have guess on that, of course, since I do not know the "others" it is only a guess. I have had people hear vinyl on my system and say it is so much better than their CD of the same album. Since they cannot play hi-rez on their very basic system I make a redbook needle drop of the vinyl album and give it to them ( since they already own a copy of the CD I do not think I am being a pirate in doing this). I tell them to compare the CD-R I made for them to the store bought CD they have. I also tell them to try to adjust the volume level so that both are at the same volume (obviously, they do not have an SPL meter). Without exception they all later tell me how much better the CD-R I gave them sounds than the CD they have. Of course, this is because most rock and pop CD's today are compressed to all hell and the vinyl is not. This kind of huge difference in the mastering will show through even using the redbook format.
     
    angelo73 and Mr. Explorer like this.
  5. LeeS

    LeeS Roll Tape!

    Location:
    Atlanta
    Several AES studies have shown listeners can distinguish between 16/44 and hirez.
     
    angelo73, Mr. Explorer and elvisizer like this.
  6. LeeS

    LeeS Roll Tape!

    Location:
    Atlanta
    On some players like PS Audio and Esoteric I prefer the transport. I think it depends mostly on the transport quality.
     
    apesfan likes this.
  7. LeeS

    LeeS Roll Tape!

    Location:
    Atlanta
    As we have discussed in the past, Ludwig suggests LP is a 24/100 khz equivalent since it can hold a 50khz signal.
     
  8. LeeS

    LeeS Roll Tape!

    Location:
    Atlanta
    Agreed. I continue to play around with the iFi gear on the USB input and it certainly helps.
     
  9. enfield

    enfield Forum Resident

    Location:
    london
    Are the 16/44 and 22/88 the exact same mastering and transferred identically? The 16's output level seems slightly quieter and sounds a bit more muddy.
     
  10. Technically, yes. Humanly audibly, no (assuming the mix / mastering is the same, of course).
     
  11. testikoff

    testikoff Forum Resident

    Where is your successful ABX test report then?.. :)

    Read how the tracks were created here & see the audio statistics for both test excerpts below:
    Code:
    Creedence Clearwater Revival - Willy And The Poor Boys [DSD]
    
    Peaks
    =====
    97.3 \ 97.3
    
    Peak Table
    ==========
     1| 97.3
     2| 97.3
    
    Full Statistics
    ===============
     #|Chan|Peak %|  Peak dB|AvgRms dB|TotRms dB|MinRms dB|MaxRms dB| MinSample| MaxSample| DCOffset
    --+----+------+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+----------+----------+---------
     1|   1|  97.3|  -0.2399| -14.4728| -13.9080| -26.2955|  -7.2577|-0.8882470| 0.9727595|   0.0001
      |   2|  89.9|  -0.9231| -14.3012| -13.8023| -27.4666|  -8.0809|-0.8991761| 0.8166003|   0.0526
    --+----+------+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+----------+----------+---------
     2|   1|  97.3|  -0.2362| -14.4728| -13.9080| -26.2955|  -7.2577|-0.8886427| 0.9731759|   0.0001
      |   2|  89.9|  -0.9257| -14.3012| -13.8023| -27.4667|  -8.0809|-0.8989024| 0.8170533|   0.0526
    
    0 dBFS: Sine
    RMS Window Size: 50 milliseconds
    
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018 at 6:13 PM
  12. Mike Rivera

    Mike Rivera Active Member

    I voted "Not Really" because at my age (almost 59), my hearing and listening habits don't provide a noticeable difference. I would guess for others, it could make a difference. I prefer vinyl, then CD or Hi-Res, then Cassettes (did I say that out loud?).
     
  13. Davey

    Davey very clever with maracas

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    Based on my listening to true 24-96 files compared to their downsampled 16-44.1 counterparts, I'd say clearly yes. Many ways to minimize the differences, but still pretty apparent.
     
    angelo73, andrewskyDE and LeeS like this.
  14. TarnishedEars

    TarnishedEars Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    It's not that you can't get great results with 16/44.1 rips. It's just that it is possible to do slightly better at higher resolutions.

    The ability to hear these kinds of subtle difference is both highly source-dependent as well as system-dependent though. The more revealing the system, and the higher-quality of the source material, the easier it is to tell a difference. It also helps to have young ears...
     
    angelo73, Mr. Explorer and elvisizer like this.
  15. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    Just a reminder that ABX testing isn't really permitted to be discussed.
     
  16. Kiko1974

    Kiko1974 Active Member

    I've never heard drums sound well on CD, never, but I have on High Res and vinyl record. The same for string instruments on classical or orchestral movie soundtracks, strings just don't sound right at 44./16 but if mastered well they do on High Res.
    The last test I did and it was a blind test as a friend changed disc layers for me was with the new Analogue Productions hybrid SACD of The Planets conducted by Zubin Mehta with Los Angeles Philarmonic, a recording from 1971. The CD layer is the same DSD mastering downconverted to 44.1/16. The CD layer sounds congested, muddy and strings don't sound right and percussions sound a bit boomy and uncontrolled. The DSD layer sounds different, sound has a sense of "ease" that the CD layer lacks, strings sound more natural, bass is a bit deeper and more controlled and soundstage is wider.
    Just my 0.020$.
     
  17. Higlander

    Higlander Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Florida, Central
    I read the rules, it does not say that discussions of actual ABX testing is not permitted, but that the arguing over whether it is valid testing method or not is not allowed.
     
    Strat-Mangler likes this.
  18. Higlander

    Higlander Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Florida, Central
    Not true, again. I think I corrected you on this before.
    It came up with a 6/10 result.
    5/10 is random guessing, and 10/10 is definitive that one can distinguish.

    I would think you would want to have something far better than 6 out of 10, to be definitive.
     
    basie-fan and Strat-Mangler like this.
  19. Higlander

    Higlander Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Florida, Central

    I asked why your needle drops at 16/44.1 sound so inferior to your needle drops at higher resolutions.
    I'm not sure you really answered.
     
  20. andrewskyDE

    andrewskyDE Forum Gangsta

    Depends on mastering, I think.
    But there are some HD audio files in my collection where I noticed more sound details compared to CDs of the same music, at least slightly.
     
    angelo73 and kBear like this.
  21. TapeHoarderDude

    TapeHoarderDude New Member

    Location:
    California
    Just curious, what is ABX testing and why is it not allowed?
     
  22. ralf11

    ralf11 Active Member

    if you are thinking of the meta-analysis by Reiss, I think you are mis-reading it

    nonetheless, they found the difference was fairly small
     
    Mr. Explorer, Higlander and elvisizer like this.
  23. Higlander

    Higlander Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Florida, Central
    The purpose of the thread, was to see if we agree/disagree on high res.
    I have seen both views expressed on the forum, and often mention of mastering differences come into the discussion.
    If we can not be sure it is the same mastering then a comparison is pointless.

    Several studies I read, did not come to anything truly conclusive, so I wondered in a simple poll what our little forum would say.
     
    angelo73 likes this.
  24. Higlander

    Higlander Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Florida, Central
  25. Dillydipper

    Dillydipper Sultan Of Snark

    Hint: the forum is owned by a mastering engineer. I suggest you stop getting torqued if people have caveats, and consider the viewpoints of the people you are asking.

    You may just find you are asking the wrong question.
     

Share This Page