Doctor Who: "Nu Who" controversial opinion (discussion)*

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Captain Leo, Dec 28, 2017.

  1. DeadParrot

    DeadParrot Forum Resident

    Location:
    MI, USA
    What is it about so many Doctor Who fans that makes me think none of them actually like Doctor Who very much?
     
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  2. jbmcb

    jbmcb Forum Resident

    Location:
    Troy, MI, USA
    What irks me the most is, the old Doctors had one constant among them - beneath their individual quirks and eccentricities you had an alien with a vast base of experience and knowledge. He was usually the smartest person in the room and he knew it. He didn't need to A: let anyone else know it, or B: get all wound up or outraged about something - save for very rare circumstances.

    I've only watched the first new season, and a couple seasons of Tenant, and every other episode he seems to have a mini-meltdown over something or another. I can understand if you want to portray him as being a hothead, but you think after living a millennia you'd be freaking out because one alien race wants to wipe out another one? Like you haven't seen that hundreds of times before? Like you haven't *done something about it* hundreds of times before?

    Segueing back to the OP's thesis, the new actors need to dial it down a bit. Troughton would fly off the handle every now and then, but it was calculated. Baker 1 would even kill people/things/robots and not care too much about it (Daleks in particular.) But they were rare occurrences that made the character more interesting. When Tenant goes over-the-top melodrama nearly every episode, it becomes tiresome.
     
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  3. Trashman

    Trashman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Yes, it's very easy to get that impression, especially if you visit Doctor Who forums. :D Just as much energy will be spent complaining about the show as will be spent discussing what is great about it.

    But it's also a program that has nearly 55 years of history, with very distinct eras and (to date) 14 different versions of the lead character, depending on how you count it. So fans of one era will not necessarily like the program of a different era. There are some fans who do like all eras of the program. But even among the most dedicated fans, they will admit that some eras just didn't work as well as others.
     
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  4. Solaris

    Solaris a bullet in flight

    Location:
    New Orleans, LA
    I tried watching an episode or two of (I think it was) Matt Smith as the doctor a few years back. It was the one that was basically a love story between the Doctor and a companion, if I recall. Jesus that was bad. Tom Baker will always be my favorite, a pretty high bar to clear admittedly, but that love story angle was such garbage, and a complete misunderstanding of the character. Like people with no interest in science fiction got hold of the show and decided to make it something else completely. I can hear the word "demographic" resonating on the background. Dreadful.

    Over the weekend I watched a couple of recent Capaldi episodes (with Bill as companion) and, to my surprise, I liked them quite a bit. I see the criticisms some of you are leveling at his characterization, and yet I still found myself absorbed in the stories. They felt like Dr Who in the classic sense, with much better effects.
     
  5. Deesky

    Deesky Forum Resident

    This!
     
  6. Flippikat

    Flippikat Forum Resident

    I seem to remember an interview with Colin where he was asked about the costume he wore, and he said that if *he* had the choice, he would've selected a look closer to what Eccleston wore - Leather jacket & all. Now THAT would have been a more fitting contrast after that cricket outfit.
     
  7. Captain Leo

    Captain Leo Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Queens, New York
    I didn't like the cruel side to Tennant. He builds up the new female PM - saying she'd be the start of "Britain's Golden Age" - and then when she does one (very logical from a human POV) thing he doesn't like, he basically plants sexist thoughts into her colleagues minds' to unseat her. Honestly, how screwed up is that? Can you blame her for firing on a ship that only moments before was threatening all of Earth? But he goes out of her way to use her feminity and age against her to make her lose her power just because he didn't like what she did. I do not recall the Classic Doctors interfering with human government:


    Seriously, Tennant has a very unkind, cruel side to him that the older ones didn't. They could be stern and no nonsense, but they weren't cruel. They weren't malicious.
     
  8. fmfxray373

    fmfxray373 Forum Resident

    Location:
    san diego
    I first saw Dr Who on PBS in the 1970s. I tried to like them and was a faithful viewer but I just could not really like it as well as say Star Trek.
    The low budget effects and sort of underwhelming "climatic endings" did not translate that well to me. To be honest I watched it more for just Baker's acting than for any sort of interests in the plots. I have tried to watch the old ones on DVD but just don't really get into it.

    The Dr. Who we have today is much, much, more enjoyable to me.

    Torchwood was great also.
     
  9. Solitaire1

    Solitaire1 Carpenters Fan

    If The Sixth Doctor had been able to fully develop (instead of being cut short), I would liked to have seen him eventually move to the Blue Outfit that I saw him wearing on one of the audiobooks. The impression I got was that it was the same basic outfit form as his original but without all of the colors and variations in fabric. It would have been following in the footsteps of The Fourth Doctor's scarf (started off multicolored, became more somber colored as he progressed).
     
  10. Solitaire1

    Solitaire1 Carpenters Fan

    I thought Romana ended up in E-Space with a K-9 and could not return to the regular Universe. Of course that was 100s of years ago...
     
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  11. Solitaire1

    Solitaire1 Carpenters Fan

    I strongly agree that The Doctor's past should remain mostly a mystery. A few hints here for there...with the possiblity that they are not the truth...but we should not have the detail that you would see in a Behind The Music episode. To use a related example, to me one of the things that made Wolverine great as a character is that we knew little about his past. Giving him a definite origin works against him.

    One thing I've found off-putting about NuWho is that the TARDIS navigation system works. One of the interesting quirks about the Classic Series is that the TARDIS' navigation system is malfunctioning and The Doctor doesn't know quite where or when he is going. This made for some unpredictability and danger for The Doctor and his companions. Its a bit boring when he gets in the TARDIS and goes exactly where and when he choose each and every time.

    However, I like that they have kept the TARDIS in the same basic shape. One of my favorite Classic Series moments is when The Sixth Doctor works on the TARDIS' Chameleon Circuit and got it working. Unfortunately, the shapes it chose were so bad that he returned it to the Police Call Box form and intentionally disabled the circuit.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2017
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  12. Solitaire1

    Solitaire1 Carpenters Fan

    I don't think its a case of disliking Doctor Who but I'm sure each of us has his/her (strong) opinions about each Doctor and their favorites. I'm sure I'm in the minority but as I mentioned before The Sixth Doctor is my favorite of all of the Doctors, and The Ninth Doctor is my favorite of the Modern Doctors, while others rank other Doctors higher.

    I think that it is likely that when people express a dislike for Doctor Who it involves a specific Doctor rather than the entire series. For me, although The Fifth Doctor was okay, I never warmed to him and I didn't care for most of his episodes. But that is me, and I'm sure that for many The Sixth Doctor likely ranks at/near the bottom of the ranking of The Doctors.
     
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  13. Captain Leo

    Captain Leo Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Queens, New York
    For myself, The 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 7th and 8th are the only Doctors I particularly like. I want to like 5 more than I do but my problem with 5 is that he followed 4. Tom Baker was not only such a great actor in the role, but he spent so long in it and is so iconic, that I don't think anyone could have followed him up and not underwhelmed. I do feel bad, because I want to like 5 so badly.

    I think a problem I have with 5 is that he was too young. My conception of The Doctor - what I feel is essential to him - is that he is a middle aged or older man; through this he exudes wisdom, experience and a certain gravitas. A young boyish lad doesn't have the gravitas of a mature man. Tom Baker was young...but he didn't come off as a boy. You could tell in the way he acted, his expressions, that there was a world of experience behind that young face.

    Davison would've worked best as a young version of the First Doctor.

    6 I just can't get past the clothes, sorry. Maybe he's the best Doctor ever in all honesty and I'm missing out. But the costume is so off-putting I can't take him seriously.
     
  14. Solitaire1

    Solitaire1 Carpenters Fan

    I'm not sure about that. The Seventh Doctor also had a bit a cruel streak about him. He might not kill an Enemy, but he had no problem setting up things so that the Enemy would destroy themselves...as he did with Davros...and then refuse to save them.

    My own belief is that when The Doctor regenerates and his personality changes, nothing new is introduced just the different mix of what was already there. That said, I think The Tenth Doctor's actions indicate that some of the less desirable aspects that were distinctive with The Seventh Doctor (such as being a gamemaster, harshness, and a manipulator) were part of The Tenth Doctor. That's the reason when The Ninth Doctor said that he ended The Time War and killed the Time Lords and the Daleks that I thought The Seventh Doctor is the one who did it since he was the one regeneration that I could see as capable of doing it.
     
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  15. Captain Leo

    Captain Leo Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Queens, New York
    A question:

    How long has the Doctor lived in each body?
    IE 11 was said to be 1,000 years old...Does that mean he spent 1,000 years as 11? Or does that mean he was alive for 1000 years overall up to that point?
    Does he only last in a regeneration as long as we see him (IE Pertwee lasted 4 years, so The Doctor in-universe only spent 4 years in that body)?

    Do we know how old the Doctor is exactly, and if his visit with Susan to 1963 marked the first time he came to Earth?

    Anyone know?
     
  16. Solitaire1

    Solitaire1 Carpenters Fan

    I remember reading that when we first saw The First Doctor he was 650 years old. Of course, it would depend on how long a "year" is.

    When it comes to age, I've always assumed that its how long The Doctor has been alive since he was born, not how long he has been in a regeneration.
     
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  17. Deesky

    Deesky Forum Resident

    For me it's not about liking or disliking a particular Doctor - I don't really care (though I did actually dislike Tennant, but that's an outlier). No, it's not any particular Doctor, but the asinine, illogical, often anti-scientific scripts with deus ex machina endings that have plagued the nuWho era (with some very notable exceptions, for sure).
     
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  18. beccabear67

    beccabear67 Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Victoria, Canada
    I always thought this was mostly because he'd a) stolen the Tardis (therefore not had proper training in it) and that it was b) designed to have a number of pilots, not just one. I've been around, and the show has been around longer, and I can't say where I may've gotten these ideas... stories #1 or #50 or in the fanzines or official monthly magazine when I used to buy those. I'm thinking it might've been with Sylvester McCoy that he started being able to go where he planned expected to each time. That was the "I'm far more than a Timelord" Andrew Cartmel cosmic semi-superhero era.

    I remember when they cast Peter Davison (too young, nothing like any previous Doctor, though that could certainly have been said for Patrick Troughton, being nothing like Hartnell) I thought it was a disaster, and then his tenure turned out reasonably well (we will not mention the Myrka here, oops). Then they cast Colin Baker and I really thought he was absolutely perfect, and then everything seemed to come apart during his run (and I loathed both his companions which didn't help, whingey Peri with that accent and Mel with the even more gaudy costumes and hair).
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2017
  19. Trashman

    Trashman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    In the Hartnell and Troughton eras, the Doctor seemingly had no control over where the TARDIS ended up. This was frequently mentioned in these stories and was used as a plot point, given as a reason why the Doctor couldn't return his companions to their time and place of origin. For the early Pertwee era, the TARDIS was essentially rendered non-functional by the Time Lords (as part of the Doctor's exile), but would occasionally carry the Doctor to other worlds... most likely under the control of the Time Lords. It was after The Three Doctors, when his exile ended, that Pertwee's Doctor regained the knowledge to use the TARDIS. To some degree, it almost seemed as if he was given more knowledge about running the TARDIS than he ever had before, because after this point the Doctor could frequently travel where he intended. He occasionally messed up, more for comedic effect than for story telling. (e.g. the early Davison era had the Doctor regularly failing to get Tegan back to Earth at the right time and place to start her stewardess career.) But he mostly had control of the TARDIS... sometimes very precise control when the story called for it.
     
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  20. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Whoman.
    No way.
     
  21. FACE OF BOE

    FACE OF BOE Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    When the First Doctor stole the TARDIS and fled Gallifrey it was in for repair. So the Doctor soon learnt that these included the faulty Chameleon Circuit that left the TARDIS in the shape of a Police Box as well as problems in piloting it to wherever he wanted to go.
     
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  22. beccabear67

    beccabear67 Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Victoria, Canada
    I remember a running 'gag' about Metabelius III or somesuch. They would land on Peladon or inside that miniscope machine and the Doctor would start off thinking they had finally reached the blue crystal world of Metabelius (and would try communicating with chickens). I think they mostly got the balance between humour and seriousness right but some people disliked those stories or giant green eyeballs in shower curtains I suppose. I'm not nostalgic as I think the first Doctor I saw as Baker with the fabulous Zygons but I came to really love the Jon Pertwee Doctor.
    Awesome, that I didn't know. Thanks for this info!
     
  23. jbmcb

    jbmcb Forum Resident

    Location:
    Troy, MI, USA
    I think in one of the Baker 1 series Key To Time episodes, he met another time lord who was employed as a repair guy for some crazy ship. I think he claimed the Doctor stole it out of a museum. IIRC this was reinforced in a much later episode where the Master (or Rani?) commented on how outdated the Doctor's TARDIS was.

    Of course, everything changes from time to time :)
     
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  24. KAJ1971

    KAJ1971 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Worcester, England
    I've been a Queen fan for years, have all their LP's, but 'Hot Space' is crap. I've been a Doctor Who fan for years, have all the DVD's (up to the last two series), but the last few series have been crap. If I, and I'm sure others, didn't like it I wouldn't be on discussion pages about it. Don't like Eastenders, The Smiths or Tories but I'm not on those discussion pages.
     
  25. Blimpboy

    Blimpboy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Walton, KY
    I thought the Classic Who had more high concept sci-fi ideas. The budget never matched up, but they were not above attempting to making 2001 on a soap opera budget. Kudos for that. I can forgive cheap sets if the dialogue is engaging. One of the more interesting examples is "The Face Of Evil", where the Doctor learns he has had a negative impact on a culture he has visited. I liked how the 2005 series tried to instill a sense of mystery about the Doctor again. The, then, unknown Time War and being the last Time Lord echoed back to the first years of the series with Hartnell. Yet two years later we are presented with companion Martha Jones getting everyone on Earth to chant "Doctor" and save our good Time Lord from The Master like Tinkerbell in Peter Pan. What a jump.
     
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