SH Spotlight 'Does anyone know where Brian Wilson mastered PET SOUNDS in 1966?" Info is here...

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Steve Hoffman, Jul 28, 2004.

  1. Greatest Hits

    Greatest Hits Just Another Compilation

    Were the UK versions of Pet Sounds any different?
    And if Brian didn't master it, than what's with the Fred Vale story of being at the mastering session with Brian who instructed the engineer to dim all the lights?
     
  2. RJL2424

    RJL2424 Active Member

    Actually, the original UK mono version of Pet Sounds is a direct fold-down from a dub of the Crapitol Duo-phony, I mean Duophonic, tapes. And the original UK "stereo" version of that album is a "mixed" dub of a dub of the Crapitol Duophonic masters. In other words, TOTALLY NAFF compared to the original US pressings.

    And I will have to agree that the original US pressings of that album are, sonics-wise, a bit erratic - and somewhat variable from pressing to pressing. Lacquers cut in Hollywood sound a bit better than those cut in NYC, and Scranton pressings in general (especially those prepared from Tower-cut lacquers) sound slightly better than those pressed in LA or Jacksonville. None of those cuttings or pressings are of anywhere near true audiophile quality, however.
     
  3. aeijtzsche

    aeijtzsche New Member

    Location:
    Bland Crapids
    It would have had to have been mastered missing vocals for three songs. Vocal overdubs were done (documented on surviving sessions sheets) on 4/11/66 and 4/13/66 at Columbia. I won't dispute anything else, but those dates aren't right.
     
  4. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Audiophile Music Mastering Your Host Thread Starter

    Really? It's possible that Brian heard the test pressings and wasn't happy and went back in. If later lacquers were cut it was not documented (and Capitol was pretty good about that). The next lacquer session for the mono version was in 1967. Are you SURE what was "redone" at Columbia was actually used in the final version?
     
  5. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    The following is excerpted from the notes in the long, thin book that comes with The Pet Sounds Sessions box set :

     
  6. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    More notes from the box set. It's about the recording of the band, but I feel it's relevant to the dates for the recording of the vocals as well:

     
  7. Mal

    Mal Phorum Physicist

    The documents I think you are referring to aren't really session sheets. They are just track sheets listing what is on each track of the 8-track masters.

    Here are the track-sheets dated April 1966 for "God Only Knows" (Monday, April 11th) and "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times" (Wednesday, April 13th):


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    All these sheets tell us is that the 8-track masters for these two songs were out of their boxes on these dates. It is possible that vocals were recorded on these dates but it is also possible that mixing was being done and that new track-sheets were written out to help with that. Even if that is the case, it may be that the mixes that ended up on the LP had already been done and that any new mixes from these sessions were never used.

    It is interesting that the "N.Y. copy" was made on 7th April. If we assume this is the infamous tape copy that has been used for the more recent re-issues of "Pet Sounds" then we know it is the same as the original master in terms of which mixes it contains which would suggest nothing done at Columbia in April made it onto the LP.

    According to Keith Badman's book, Saturday 16th April was the day that Fred Vail sat in the Capitol cutting room with the lights off watching Brian giving instructions to "the mastering guy" as the lacquers for the LP were being cut.

    If the Capitol mastering dates are correct, what would be the purpose of the April Columbia sessions?!

    If, on the other hand, the Capitol mastering dates are only for test pressings and the 16th April mastering date Keith Badman refers to is when the lacquers for the finished LP were actually cut then vocals for "God Only Knows" and "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times" that feature on the LP could have been recorded at Columbia on 11th and 13th April!

    :)
     
  8. Ed Bishop

    Ed Bishop Incredibly, I'm still here

    A tantalizing mystery, isn't it?


    :ed:
     
  9. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Audiophile Music Mastering Your Host Thread Starter

    Possibly the lacquers cut on 4/19/66 at Capitol were THE set...The earlier cuttings might have been rejected though stuff like that is usually marked in the notes...
     
  10. aeijtzsche

    aeijtzsche New Member

    Location:
    Bland Crapids
    Well, we know the multis were overdubbed after the final mix was complete, that's why Brian vocal is on the bridge of WIBN on the stereo version, and Carl's voice on the fade of God Only Knows. I don't believe any alterations were made to "Wasn't made" though.
     
  11. RJL2424

    RJL2424 Active Member

    You might not like me bringing this thread back up for a third time, but I have recently acquired a Scranton-pressed copy of PET SOUNDS to compare with a LA-pressed copy that I have had for nine months. (Both copies used Tower-cut lacquers - but oddly, the Scranton-pressed copy appeared to use earlier lacquer cuttings than the LA-pressed copy. The Scranton-pressed copy has "T1-2458-F19" and "T2-2458-G22" in the deadwax; the LA-pressed copy has "T-1-2458-G-28" and "T-2-2458-G-30" in the deadwax. Also, the deadwax info on the Scranton-pressed copy was stamped, while that on the LA-pressed copy was etched.)

    I listened to both copies - one after the other - on my vinyl setup (a Music Hall MMF-5 turntable fitted with a Shure V15VxMR cartridge, connected to a lower-end 1989-vintage Pioneer receiver, with one of its tape outs connected to a Grado RA-1 headphone amp powering a pair of Sennheiser HD 600 headphones).

    My findings confirmed my earlier suspicions. The Scranton-pressed copy had slightly quieter vinyl than the LA-pressed copy. And due to the slightly earlier cuttings, the Scranton-pressed copy had better top-end detail and less grainy sibilance than the LA-pressed copy. The differences were subtle, but noticeable if you pay close enough attention to the sound.
     
  12. Paul Curtis

    Paul Curtis Active Member

    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    I've definitely noticed this myself. I own two mono copies of the Beach Boys' All Summer Long--one pressed in LA, the other in Scranton--and the latter is noticeably slow. I haven't timed it exactly, but I'd guess that it's about 2% off.

    --Paul Curtis
     
  13. RJL2424

    RJL2424 Active Member

    Well, both my LA-pressed and my Scranton-pressed copies of Pet Sounds are precisely the same pitch, leading to the fact that the Scranton plant used both Tower-cut and NYC-cut lacquers during the '60s. Your particular Scranton-pressed copy of All Summer Long likely used lacquers cut in NYC - the matrix information in the runout groove deadwax of your Scranton-pressed copy (likely a "second pressing") would likely have read "T1-2110-P##"/"T1-2110-T##" and/or "T2-2110-P##"/T2-2110-T##". Both of my original Pet Sounds pressings used lacquers cut in Hollywood - both copies have F- and G- lathe codes (as in "T2-2458-G22") in the matrix info.
     
  14. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Audiophile Music Mastering Your Host Thread Starter

    Wow, people are still reading this thread. It's interesting info but strictly for the anal (like me.) :)
     
  15. Beatle Terr

    Beatle Terr Super Senior SH Forum Member Musician & Guitarist

    It Tis!!! :laugh:
     
  16. Beatle Terr

    Beatle Terr Super Senior SH Forum Member Musician & Guitarist

    So you think your the only ONE!!!!!

    Give us a break!! I've got the 800 number with a direct ship notice from the "Preperation H" company! :D :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
     
  17. Stan94

    Stan94 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paris, France
    I have a "Beach Boys Deluxe Set" Duophonic edition from 1967 with "Today", "Summer Days" and "Pet Sounds" in it. PS was cut at the Tower (machine A) but the other two records were cut in New York (machines W and X: SDASN is all W, Today has side one etched (W) and side 2 is machine stamped (X)). I'll give them a spin later and report if they play slower than normal or not.
     
  18. McLover

    McLover Forum Resident

    Location:
    East TN
    I remember the Scranton mono sounding slightly better than the Hollywood cutting a friend had in mono. He moved away from the area, I sold off my Scranton lacquer mono copy and replaced it with the Brother reissue twofer after hearing a copy in a record store.
     
  19. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Audiophile Music Mastering Your Host Thread Starter

    I have a nice, clean 1966 Capitol USA LP in mono that I have for sentimental value, I never play it. I did pull it out last night and tried a song or two. The main problem with it (and most Capitols of that time) is the extreme filtering of the sound. It's like nothing above 8,000 cycles or below 100 cycles mattered. Weird style.
     
  20. william shears

    william shears Active Member

    Location:
    new zealand
    I got an immaculate original US copy about 5 years ago, still in shrinkwrap. It cost a lot of money and I was so disappointed when I played it. Bad, muffled sound and awful noisy viny, even though it was pretty much unplayed. Amazing that it went out like that. I think all other copies I've heard sounded better than that first press original!
     
  21. pool_of_tears

    pool_of_tears Music Appreciator

    Location:
    Eastern Iowa
    Why did they do that? So it would sound nice on a Curtis Mathis TV/Stereo system...one of these:

    [​IMG]
     
  22. Stan94

    Stan94 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paris, France
    I already said that, but although the duophonic versions don't sound good at all, there's a depth in those mixes that's simply lacking in mono. Plus, the fades seem to last a bit longer, probably due to the tape not being damaged from numerous copies....
     
  23. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Audiophile Music Mastering Your Host Thread Starter

    Can you rephrase? I'm not getting you. Thanks.
     
  24. O Don Piano

    O Don Piano Forum Resident

    I submitted my original Capitol LP to AF for artwork purposes when Steve mastered it again a few years ago. I wonder if it was used for audio reference! I'm pretty sure he didn't need to- he's worked on it so many times! The LP really doesn't sound great.....
     
  25. Stan94

    Stan94 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paris, France
    I meant that the duophonic mixes do sound terrible but the fact that maybe the tapes used for cutting had been used only a few times then, there's a depth (for lack of a better word) in those mixes that I don't hear on mono discs. It's like the layers of sound can be heard more clearly than in the mono versions. Maybe the duophonic treatment opened the sound a bit and killed the musicality at the same time? Anyway there is something interesting in those duophonic discs I think.
     

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