Does the new Project Debut Carbon DC fix the motor hum problem?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Alobar, Mar 5, 2015.

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  1. noman

    noman Well-Known Member

    Location:
    USA
    What has happened is Sumiko sent me a pre-paid label to take back the defective table, and they've sent me a new one from the factory (good on them on both counts). The refund ship had sailed since I owned the table for too long, so this was best case scenario. That said, I doubt I'll open the box when it arrives. I have next to no faith it will be any different, and then I'm stuck with a problematic "used" table again. Might see if there's any local demand for one new-in-box at a cut-rate price.
     
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  2. Cyclone Ranger

    Cyclone Ranger New old stock

    Location:
    Best Coast USA
    Yah, after all you've been through, I'd just sell it, buy something else, and never give Pro-Ject another dime of my money ever again.

    It's like, "Fool me once..." :unhunh:
    .
     
  3. noman

    noman Well-Known Member

    Location:
    USA
    No doubt. Only thing that gives me pause is the guys at Sumiko tried to help, and I know they really want to know if this fixes the situation. But then I think about how Pro-Ject sold me a $600 turd and all the headaches it's caused and the sentimental feelings wash away pretty easily.
     
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  4. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    You know, Pro-Ject has a very nice phono pre with all sorts of capacitance and gain adjustments that looks just great. I can tell you I'd be pretty hesitant to buy it because it has the Pro-Ject name on it. It may be a fine product but I simply don't trust this company.
     
  5. Robert Godridge

    Robert Godridge Forum Resident

    Dennis, what issues did you notice with your pro-ject? You mentioned hearing things you didn't like on better systems, what sorts of things? I'm just curious as I'm probbably going to upgrade a lot of my system and wonder what I'll hear...
     
  6. GyroSE

    GyroSE Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    Interesting. Is this issue confirmed now? What does Pro-Ject say about this?
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2017
  7. willboy

    willboy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wales, UK
    I recently bought a new 2-Xperience Classic. Motor does vibrate a little, but appears to have little effect as I cant hear any hum or other noise issues, and that's with the supplied wall wart PSU and unconnected earth lead. Time will tell, but it seems like a well made table...sounds pretty good too.

    I probably wouldn't have bought it if I'd read this thread first though........
     
  8. Hi all,

    after living with hum for 2 years with my Pro-ject Debut Carbon ESPRIT SB (DC), having tried everything, getting increasing noise as the stylus goes to the center of the platter (amazing!!!), so, fed up of all that bad stuff, this morning I decided to take the electronics for the power out of the plynth....and much better!!!, no more noise while moving the stylus, and the hum has been reduced significantly.

    The fix is simple, just a bit tricky to un-plug/plug the motor to turn it 180 degrees so that the cable gets out through the opposite side. Here I leave a video and some photos.

    IMG_1339.MOV
    IMG_1337.JPG
    IMG_1336.JPG
    IMG_1335.JPG
    IMG_1338.JPG

    However, I am going to change the TT for a serious one, and forget Pro-ject (and similars) for ever, but meanwhile I feel much better, with much improved sound... BTW really amazed that Pro-ject didn't do something like this knowing how bad this design is (I neither understand the way many reviews out there are done...)

    hope this helps
    regards
    Enrique
     
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  9. Mika Korpela

    Mika Korpela Member

    Location:
    Tampere, Finland
    Correction. The motor is still an AC motor. But the AC generator is now inside the turntable and fed by wall wart DC supply.
     
  10. punkmusick

    punkmusick Amateur drummer

    Location:
    Brazil
    Same here. I run away from everything with this name on.
     
  11. Tetrack

    Tetrack Forum Resident

    Location:
    Scotland, UK.
    To be fair, in my experience it is not just Pro-Ject that has this problem. Most of the entry level belt drives I have had, had the same problem to certain degrees. Whether buzz from the arm or hum when the arm gets nearer the motor.
    I think the hum near the motor especially is something that is pretty common. I experienced this with Rega and Goldring(Rega clone deck) t00.
    Using a fully shielded cartridge could help with this though. I think the Pro-ject Debut 2, for me, was probably the best in this regard. YMMV.
     
  12. willboy

    willboy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wales, UK
    Also, Pro-ject probably sell a lot more entry level tables than other manufacturers hence you hear more about hum issues with Pro-ject.
     
  13. Litejazz53

    Litejazz53 Perfect Sound Through Crystal Clear Digital

    I have posted this before, but since folks are mentioning the Humming Carbon, might be a good time to post this video again. As most of us know the Debut Carbon is a 120 HZ humming machine. You "might" reduce the hum with the AC or DC version, but both hum, the company has known about the hum for years and have NEVER acknowledged the hum, let alone fixed it. I find it very interesting this man went to the supreme extreme to eliminate his hum, but after sawing his turntable in pieces, the darn thing still hums. I am amazed that anyone still buys these low end Project turntables, a terribly poor decision indeed. These two videos paint the picture perfectly, I hope you enjoy these great videos!




    Pro-ject Debut Carbon phono motor hum?
     
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  14. Mika Korpela

    Mika Korpela Member

    Location:
    Tampere, Finland
    Correction. The motor is still an AC motor. But the AC generator is inside the turntable
    and is fed by wall wart DC supply.
     
    patient_ot likes this.
  15. Mika Korpela

    Mika Korpela Member

    Location:
    Tampere, Finland
    Correction of correction. There was AC generator also in the old debut inside but it is now modified so that it runs by DC supply. So no AC coming in which reduces hum. Motor is also a little bit different but still an AC motor. P.S. I own three pro-ject turntables (debut dc included) and have nothing negative to say about the company.
     
  16. willboy

    willboy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wales, UK
    I only have one Pro-ject table, a 2Xperience Classic. Nothing negative to say about it either. It's a solid very well built table, finished off with a good quality wood veneer, and sounds very nice indeed fitted with a Hana EH.

    Your Pro-ject 6 Perspex is reputed to be a fine sounding table and well worth its price.
     
  17. Bob_in_OKC

    Bob_in_OKC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dallas, Texas
    The US models of the Debut Carbon have been different from the European models. There was a discussion on another forum involving a dealer and posters who had contacted Sumiko and Pro-Ject. I don’t know how the latest US version is powered, but a few years ago they were still fed 15VAC per this discussion -

    Debut Carbon and Speed Box II - Vinyl Engine
     
  18. Mika Korpela

    Mika Korpela Member

    Location:
    Tampere, Finland
    The new debut turntable (debut carbon dc) uses DC wall wart. There is no US version, the supply works well within 100...240VAC and 47...63Hz.

    Pro-Ject Audio Systems
     
  19. Northa40

    Northa40 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Canada
    This is one of the longest threads ever, so why stop now, here I go again. I am now a 3 time Project losser. My history in order. I first purchased a Debut Carbon DC that had both problems, 1. electrical noise 2. mechanical induced hum from the motor. I took this back within the week. Second purchase was a Essential II (still using this) The Essential II is actually quieter than the Debut. Yes it still has a motor vibration but its not as annoying as the hum from the Debut. I have added the acrylic platter, a white silicone belt, changed the power supply to CLASS 2 transformer and added a Goldring 2200 cartridge, the Essential II sounds better than it should. My most resent purchased was a used 1Xpression Carbon Classic DC. You think I would have learned my lesson. I went into this purchase eyes wide open. This table is $1197 CDNnew at my local dealer and this one came with a 2M Blue up grade. I thought that with all I had learned with my other Pro-Ject tables I had the idea that, "I can fix this." So far I am half right, here is what I have done. I tried this table with the stock cables and as others have found out, they suck. I replaced them with, of all things OMEGA PLATINUM VIDEO INTERCONNECTS. These are double shielded cables and completely eliminate any noise from any stray EMI and RFI. I had to make a new ground wire which I crimped and than soldered the connection. I also switched out the power supply with the same one I am using the the Essential, which happens to be from a Cannon printer. So as for electrical hum, hiss/buzz it is perfect, couldn't be happier. Now for the ugly, mechanical hum induced by vibrating motor. I have tried everything, rubber gaskets, felt spacer, silicone rubber, sticky tack. Nothing works. This Table, the 1Xpression Carbon Classic DC could be an outstanding turntable. It has a good cart(2M Silver), it has a great arm that is fully adjustable and it looks amazing. I am very disappointed with Pro-Ject for not seriously addressing the mechanical vibration caused by the motor on the Debut I fully expected it with the Essential . I am going to trade in both tables for something else, and it wont be a Pro-Ject, a shame since it could/should have been a great turntable.
     
  20. Paul billington

    Paul billington Member

    Location:
    Preston
    Hi, first post but wanted to contribute to the debut carbon dc hum issue.
    Recently purchased the turntable but had to return it due to excessive noise which was some kind of groundimg fault with the table.
    The new table was better bit still hum issues.
    I have messed and done a few things and have it to a point I am happy with.
    Firstly remove the lid when using the table
    Secondly remove the two motor screws and the rubber spacers, this completely eliminates the motor noise you here between tracks.
    Finally the noise you get when the stylus is on or above the record is eliminated by placing a grounding wire from the tables grounding screw to the motor.
    You have a hum when the arm is in the rest but it goes when on or over the platter.
    I do wish we didn't have to mess like this but I hope this helps
     
  21. Paul billington

    Paul billington Member

    Location:
    Preston
    Forgot to add. I also have a Paul Baldwin linear psu with the toggle switch up.
    An improvement over the supplied psu
     
  22. Northa40

    Northa40 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Canada
    Hi Paul it is to bad that you have to do all this to make a turntable work properly, I'm not giving up, and yes I the motor mount screws removed. I got this used and inexpensive, 1/2 the list price. so I can spend a few dollars trying to fix it. I think the next step is a motor decoupling kit.
     
  23. Northa40

    Northa40 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Canada
  24. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    I have to say that buying a properly engineered TT will save you £££ in the long run. £500 minimum for Pioneer PLX1000 DD. For Belt drive Michell Tecnodec (arm extra) or Notts Analogue Interspace junior (includes arm). Talking £1000 - £1400 here so the Pioneer is the real bargain and I think with a bit of tweaking will give decks up to £1200 a close run. The other contender is the Marantz TT15 which appears to be better made than budget Clearaudio (who make it) for less money. A bit off topic but I'm saying avoid Project apart from their expensive models. Rega appear to have problems for some people but should be safe with the new P3 unless you have earthing issues. I think there has to be too much corner cutting to produce a TT below a certain price including distributor and retail margins plus VAT. Save yourself the pain and time doing mods unless you enjoy that kind of thing as a hobby (then buy used).
     
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  25. GyroSE

    GyroSE Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    Michell Tecnodec; a forgotten gem that easily gets overlooked when a lot of hi fi buffs only look for the most recent turntables. The Tecnodec is an amazing turntable that still holds its own much like the Gyro and Orbe do in their respective price brackets.
     
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