Does the new Project Debut Carbon DC fix the motor hum problem?

I bought a Pioneer PLX-1000 because I got tired of my Debut Carbon hum issues. When I plugged it the very first thing I noticed was the absence of hum from motor or ground problems or whatever. Couldn't be more satisfied. I believe the sooner you give up and get rid of your humming Debut Carbon the better. Save yourself time, money and frustration. Unless it doesn't hum, of course, because it is a good table overall. If it doesn't hum, it's nice.

 

Agreed. For many, this table simply wasn't fit for purpose. A product at this price-point should fulfil its design intentions - play records at a reasonably accurate speed free of notable noise, and at a reasonable standard of fidelity/ playback quality. For me, it couldn't fulfil these goals. And that's on multiple iterations of this table. A real shame, because budget as though it may be for many, it wasn't for me.

It's turned me off the brand. Now, I simply think of them as another company cashing in on the vinyl resurgence through sacrificing their engineering/ QC credentials.

 

I've had the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Esprit DC for a couple of weeks and haven't had any hum issues. Crossing my fingers that it doesn't show up. I have my speakers and turntable plugged into different outlets, an Audioquest GroundGoody Saturn going from the turntable to the Pro-Ject Tube Box S, and AudioQuest Golden Gate cables. I'm not sure why I'm not getting any hum, but feel like maybe I got lucky.

 

I’m resurrecting this forum because I have purchased a Debut Carbon DC with only 10 hours of use. I wasn’t aware of the hum issue, but I noticed it right away. So I did some research and ended up here. I tried all the “fixes” without success when I realized that the motor was running way hotter than any other turntable that I’ve owned, including decades old Thorens 126 mk III. That’s when I also realized that it vibrates like crazy, and that it offers a lot of resistance to turning. I found out that this was the issue with other nearby Debut Carbon DCs, and that there’s absolutely no fix. It’s basically a lousy motor. Worse than one on a $100 toy turntable.

It’s a real shame, because I love how it sounds and tracks. But the hum is driving me crazy because it’s the only decent turntable that I’ve owned in over 40 years that exhibits this problem. Luckily, I bought it at considerably lower than market value, so I should be able to resell it without any monetary loss. I guess I’ll try to fix the speed issue that showed up on my vintage Technics and then get rid of it. What a disappointment. I really wish it worked well, and also that I had found out about the motor vibration hum before investing on it.

 

The humming Carbons have never been addressed by Pro-ject. There is no fix for them, and that came straight from the head person in service when I called them. His only advice to me was to return the turntable immediately. I spent about 6 hours trying all the Internet fixes, short of sawing the table apart, as you see here. If you will do a bit more Internet work you will see the DC version is actually the same AC motor. The platters are still not heavy enough, the arm are still almost impossible to pick up as they are so light they fall off your finger, and the platter mat is so thin and cheap it should not even be sold. You are very wise to immediately do away with your humming Carbon. This is what one customer did to "try" and just reduce the hum, however he said even this would not solve the problem completely. It's has a 120 Hz Buzz/Hum, and it only happens when you lower the stylus down on the record with the motor on. As soon as you pick the stylus up, off the record, the hum/buzz stops completely. It is a terrible problem, and no matter what you hear, it has not been addressed by the manufacturer. I'm not sure that Pro-ject have ever even recognized there is a problem, which is why I stay away from Pro-ject for any table, so many unsuspecting people like yourself have been burned by the humming Carbon.

 

It's down to a design flaw. At the end of the day it's a cheaply made, poorly designed TT. A lot of the lower end rubber band TTs use the same cheap off the shelf motor (they buy them in bulk) and will have similar problems if the design of the plinth, motor mount, and platter was not specifically made to a address them.

 

You know one thing amazes me, the people that either say, my humming Carbon does not hum OR I was easily able to fix my humming problem, when the top person in the service department told me to not even try, just return it immediately. At that time the DC was just coming out, and I even asked, will you swap for the DC version and they would not. I'm not sure what is DC about it as the motor is the standard AC motor. Their info says the motor sees AC not DC, even though the Wall Wart is a DC wall wart, not sure how that worked???

 

Likely the wall wart has a transformer in it or there is some circuitry mounted on the plinth that converts the voltage. Not sure. Haven't messed with electronics since I was in high school. All I know is I have personally examined a few of the lower end Pro-Jects (Ess. III, Debut Carbon DC, RPM1/3) and they all have various issues. Not something I would personally buy or recommend.

 

The new wall wart is AC. It seems that the DC model has a different control circuit. But it’s still the same AC motor.

 

I have confirmed that the motor is AC. I unmounted it in order to see if I could lube it to make it turn smoother and reduce the vibration. There’s a label under the motor that shows that it is AC. BTW, there’s no lube hole, like on better motors, and it appears to be completely sealed. Therefore, lubricating it is not an option.

I guess that many buyers can’t hear the hum because they are not familiar with vinyl or their equipment somehow masks it. I have JBL L 300A speakers with 15” woofers, and the hum comes up loud and clear as soon as the stylus hits the record.

I also wondered if the hum was due to the metal platter causing some sort of induction in the cartridge (very unlikely), but if we rest the stylus on the record with the motor turned off, there’s no vibration and, consequently, no hum.

Pro-Ject could, at least, offer a better motor as an upgrade or fix. Since they don’t, there’s absolutely no hope.

 

You have absolutely confirmed the exact problem the Carbon has had for years and years and no one addresses it, can you imagine that, a problem lasting for years with NO answer out of Pro-Ject? The second that stylus hits the moving record, 120Hz hum/buz, right out the speakers and no one can fix it, so don't even try.

 

The wall wart is just 15VDC, so there must be internal conversion to AC. My wart caused enough noise that I replaced it with a home built 15VDC linear power supply. It's now quiet enough at 33 rpm, although noisy at 45rpm. I'm assuming this is mechanical noise.

 

The older Carbon had a DC wall wart. The newer DC models come with an AC wall wart. The 120V to 15V conversion can be done using a simple transformer. The older DC wall wart rectified the current to DC.

You probably notice the hum more at 45rpm because of the faster platter rotating speed, which ends up amplifying the vibration.

 

I would guess there is a big skip full of Debut Carbons behind the Project factory in Slovakia. . My guess is most sold aren't returned out of ignorance so they aren't losing money, but returns must be high and they are being dumped somewhere if unfixable.

 

Makes one wonder why anyone would buy a Pro-Ject TT.
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Ironically while they are producing tat and gimmicks they are also capable of producing some really fine product. The high end decks are a relative bargain and are very well constructed. They just try to cover all areas of the market. Looks like there is a new much revised range of budget to mid priced models coming out.

 

I had to look up that tat was British slang for rubbish or junk.
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I'm not sure what "older Carbon" or "newer DC models" you are referring to. Do you have a link to a "newer DC model"? If it's plugged into the AC wall outlet, of course it's converting from AC voltage, with 15VDC output. Are you saying there are different wall warts?

Mine is the Debut Carbon Esprit SB (DC), as advertised "with DC power supply". Anyway, it's simple enough to look at the output designation on the wall wart.

 

Because they're not all the same. I've worked a Honda motorcycle dealership for forty years and you can't deny the quality of most of their products they've also turned out some real clunkers causing many warranty claims and in some cases years of trial to get it right. While I dont absolve Project of some misfires along the way which should be rectified, any company that has a large catalogue is going to have the odd black sheep.

 

They introduced the DC model, with the AC wall wart in 2014. Prior to that, it came with a DC power supply. It appears that the DC model took care of the previous power supply noise issue. But the motor vibration problem was “solved” by not telling the owners to remove the transport screws in the manual. However, the vibration is still there.

You have the improved model with the acrylic platter. It may actually reduce the resonance caused by the motor.

 

Music Hall uses the same (Pro-ject) motor for its turntables, right?

 

This is true according to an analog guru friend of mine. According to him, the TOTL Pro-Jects like the RPM-10 Carbon are actually bargains in hi-fi terms - that's coming from a guy whose daily-driver is an SME 30/2.

 

This is the AC wall wart.

 

Yes it does, it's the same AC motor

 

They are the same, and the problems exist to this day, stay away from Carbons, period.