Does vinyl need an Analog certification agency (like the organic certification)?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Ironclaw, Apr 19, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. uzn007

    uzn007 Watcher of the Skis

    Location:
    Raleigh, N.C.
    And records from the 50s sound different than records from the 60s, but they're all analog. It has a lot more to do with the actual equipment used to record music, the studios it was done in and the ephemeral trends in how things "should" sound.
     
    panasoffkee and c-eling like this.
  2. c-eling

    c-eling They're made of light,We never would have guessed

    I have no issues with early digital recordings, Abba The Visitors is a good example. I do have a beef with re-issues coming from crappy sources or questionable mastering decisions.
    With the labels archiving everything to digital it's cheaper for them to throw it to vinyl. Easier to fix in that realm as well if the master's have any degradation.
    The hypes need to be more transparent, I think they word them on purpose so you think you are getting a analog cut.
    'Remastered from the original master tapes by George Marino at Sterling Sound'- Some may think this is AAA when it's not. Just a (poor) digital remaster at 44 laid to wax.
     
    moonshiner likes this.
  3. DeRosa

    DeRosa Vinyl Forever

    I think this is where things are going with the premium re-issue labels, who do care about the sound quality,
    so it's a marketing opportunity for consumers like us who know what they want. It also educates the rest of the folks,
    and costs them very little, just have to add a sticker.

    Even Rhino has been putting more info on their stickers recently.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  4. dobyblue

    dobyblue Forum Resident

    You're probably thinking of products claiming to be "natural" (no standards surrounding the use of that term) - organic certification is regulated by the USDA and has defined standards. For some it's a ripoff, for those looking to reduce their risk of pesticide contamination by 30% (Stanford, 2012) it's not a joke. Stanford, you may remember their study as it was widely broadcast in the mainstream media as proof organic food isn't healthier than conventional, also concluded that choosing organic meat would result in a 30% reduction in exposure to antibiotic-resistant bacteria. Antibiotic-resistant bacteria surely isn't a joke.
     
    c-eling likes this.
  5. telepicker97

    telepicker97 Got Any Gum?

    Location:
    Midwest
    Columbia Nippon/Denon made the first digitally sourced record in 1972 - I wanna say Mozart.
     
    uzn007 likes this.
  6. telepicker97

    telepicker97 Got Any Gum?

    Location:
    Midwest
    The cutting of the laquers, iirc.
     
    DTK and uzn007 like this.
  7. Mr Bass

    Mr Bass Chevelle Ma Belle

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic
    Sorry to reply to myself but I found the little certification tapdance from 2014 posted below:

    Arlington, VA – 06/12/2014 – DEG: The Digital Entertainment Group, in cooperation with the Consumer Electronics Association (CEA)® and The Recording Academy®, announced today the results of their efforts to create a formal definition for High Resolution Audio, in partnership with Sony Music Entertainment, Universal Music Group and Warner Music Group.

    The definition is accompanied by a series of descriptors for the Master Quality Recordings that are used to produce the hi-res files available to digital music retailers. These can be used on a voluntary basis to provide the latest and most accurate information to consumers.

    The descriptors include:

    • MQ-P. From a PCM master source 48 kHz/20 bit or higher; (typically 96/24 or 192/24 content)
    • MQ-A. From an analog master source
    • MQ-C. From a CD master source (44.1 kHz/16 bit content)
    • MQ-D. From a DSD/DSF master source (typically 2.8 or 5.6 MHz content)
    No there is no linkage with a more recent digital gizmo haha.
     
    dobyblue likes this.
  8. RhodyDave125

    RhodyDave125 Streetwalkin' Cheetah

    Are you serious? Music can't be enjoyed by you unless you know what type of tape it was recorded on? You "don't know" if you want the new edition of Nilsson's album because you can't find out all the irrelevant recording minutiae - don't you think this is rather joyless way to go about living? Good lord man, life is short, enjoy the music.
     
    TS582 and Robert C like this.
  9. uzn007

    uzn007 Watcher of the Skis

    Location:
    Raleigh, N.C.
    How are you enjoying your first day on the Hoffman forums?
     
    AnalogJ, Mr Bass and telepicker97 like this.
  10. dobyblue

    dobyblue Forum Resident

    I can't find the part of their post where they said they can't enjoy music.
     
    telepicker97 likes this.
  11. DeRosa

    DeRosa Vinyl Forever

    Those are strawman arguments, he never said he can't enjoy it.
    Why don't you try understanding the point he's making instead?

    Like for instance, if you own a couple of copies of a record and a new version
    is announced, wouldn't it be helpful to know the source/mastering/pressing/packaging
    before buying it? I don't think this idea of labeling is a conspiracy to make
    music joyless, it's simply another way to reduce the uncertainty and disappointment
    that buying reissues can be.
     
  12. RhodyDave125

    RhodyDave125 Streetwalkin' Cheetah

    Yeah, I know - crazy me. I get that there are audiophiles and that having top-end equipment makes a difference in perceived sound quality. I buy into that as much as my meager finances allow, so you'll get no beef from me on that. What I can't get though is that despite having thousands, or tens of thousands, of dollars worth of speakers and equipment isn't enough - no, it is also imperative that the source tape used being known is also of vital importance.

    It seems all a bit put on. If someone can legitimately make a case that they can discern qualitative differences between tape sources from 40-50 years ago, and that those differences make or break the listening experience, please do. I'm all in favor of being educated.
     
  13. RhodyDave125

    RhodyDave125 Streetwalkin' Cheetah

    Would it be helpful? I agree that knowing packaging details helps me make an informed decision, but really, what type of tape the source is recorded on seems a bit esoteric. There's no controlling what the tape used to record a source was, so what does it matter now, 40 something years after the fact? Do you like the music? Do you want another version of something that you already probably have several copies of on different media? How far down the rabbit hole is far enough? This is what I mean by taking the joy out of it.
     
    panasoffkee and TS582 like this.
  14. telepicker97

    telepicker97 Got Any Gum?

    Location:
    Midwest
    SOMEONE has to buy the thing first and tell us what is better/worse about it, so others can question the buyer's equipment/hearing/format bias/etc.
     
  15. Henry Love

    Henry Love Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicagoland
    Taking the joy out of it is not knowing what you've got.
     
    DeRosa likes this.
  16. dobyblue

    dobyblue Forum Resident

    It's not of vital importance, but for me if a major label release comes out and I can't find out any info on the source material used for the vinyl, or at the very least whether it has a separate mastering credit, I'm buying the CD or digital download. If the viny lwas separately mastered, generally it's called out in the liner notes if not as part of the marketing blurb. So the label gets less of my money if I'm just buying the CD for $9 vs. $30 for the record. I think that's what the other poster meant when they said "being transparent will help their business."

    When I see something like this, I know I'm going to pick up the vinyl (this is a major label release from Sony Legacy, 20th anniversary edition of DMB's Crash, "and cut" being the key phrase I'm looking for)

    [​IMG]

    Another recent example, the multi-platinum "25" from Adele, mastered very hot at Sterling by Tom Coyne and a little less aggressively by Ryan K. Smith for the vinyl. Separate vinyl mastering credit, good to know!

    It's all part and parcel of deciding which format to buy for the informed audiophile. :)
     
    DeRosa likes this.
  17. captainsolo

    captainsolo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Murfreesboro, TN
    Yes it would’ve lovely even if it was simply the return of the A/A/A indicator code.
    What would be truly great is to have a sticker with the DR score right on the front cover of all music so that people everywhere might finally understand what it means.
     
  18. showtaper

    showtaper Concert Hoarding Bastard

    They could end all of this grief by making an all analog record light a pretty blue light on your pre-amp (oh wait - that idea has been taken).......... :D
     
    uzn007 likes this.
  19. Mr Bass

    Mr Bass Chevelle Ma Belle

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic
    Somehow our Host can figure it out but it does take getting out of the chair.
     
  20. Since most of the cutting lathes from the 80's on used digital delays of the audio for the variable groove spacing systems I wonder if this part of the digital system has been upgraded yet. Certainly a higher sampling and bit rate converter could be utilized today or better still they could go back to the analogue tape previewing systems.
     
  21. Mr Bass

    Mr Bass Chevelle Ma Belle

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic
    With all due respect to Analog Planet, they are not there to annoy the industry and coudn't survive if they did. cf Robert Ludwig
     
  22. DeRosa

    DeRosa Vinyl Forever

    Yes, some folks like to know. Type of tape? I think people just like to know if it's cut from the original master.
    This stuff ain't that complicated. The stickers from Analogue Productions do the job.

    If it's a non-specialty label, I just need a warning it's cut from a digital file by Ron McMaster
    and pressed at Rainbo, and the jacket is some blurry photocopy on flimsy paper crap so i can move on.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2018
  23. RhodyDave125

    RhodyDave125 Streetwalkin' Cheetah

    I agree that your criteria as you've listed here are good to know. But my comment was in regard to the issue of what tape was used for the source. Your example above doesn't call that out, for good reason I think.
     
  24. andrewskyDE

    andrewskyDE Island Owner

    Location:
    Europe
    Agree with this. And yes, that would cost too much extra.
     
  25. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ Hearing In Stereo Since 1959

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    In other news, culled from research requested through the Freedom Of Information Act, RhodyDave125 has previously stated that there is NO difference in degree of enjoyment between driving a Chevrolet Chevette and a Porsche Carrera, eating a Dunkin' Donuts steak sandwich and a Prime grade ribeye from Abe & Louis', and drinking a glass of Moet & Chandon champagne and glass of carbonated wine flavored water. Moreover, RhodyDave125 has stated that cost and relative value should play no part in any decision-making.

    More at 11.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine