Does vinyl only make sense if they're pressed from analog tapes?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Remote Control Triangle, Jun 13, 2018.

  1. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Burnout from the smoke pit

    Location:
    Ohio

    I don't think we need to get into a deep scientific discussion that no one is going to read but there is more going with the sound that makes it to your ear hole than the pressure wave. There is a clear and audible difference in the sound that comes from an analog source that has little to nothing to do with mechanical noise from a turntable. If it sounds different, its a different wave.
     
  2. Dan C

    Dan C Forum Fotographer

    Location:
    The West
    Short answer: No.

    Longer answer: LPs offer both sonic and tactile experiences. Most LPs pressed since the early-80s from supposedly all-analog masters likely have some digital step in the workflow and many still sound great. Mastering quality is more important than digital vs analog.

    Short long answer: Digital recording has been a thing for some four-decades and here we are still having this stupid useless debate. It's like every time you have a meal you start badgering the chef about the knives he used. "It might be a digital knife but I can't tell but if it is it sucks and I can't enjoy this otherwise wonderful meal until I know if the knife was digital or analog even though I can't tell..."

    dan c
     
  3. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    Sweet VA.

    Well stated. I don't have the capability for Hi Res on my systems, yet may look to that in the future if new artists become more of import to me.
    I'm thinking, why should I look at a CD or vinyl offering if they were cut from a master Hi Res file? Why not just go for the original?
    But I do find the better AAA has a more magical quality to it.
     
  4. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    Sweet VA.
    True 'dat!
    And I truly believe that digital audio is still in it's infancy, the full potential has not began to surface.
    It is based on algorithms written years ago. Sure the gear has progressed, but other than SACD/DSD, no real advances.
    Does it capture all note decay, how 'bout the sonics that are felt yet out of reach of human hearing?
    Is any recorded medium perfect? Hell no. Some just seem to convey realism better than others?
    Not enough profit for record labels to advance the tech. As usual, that will come from the trickle down tech of military and space exploration research/needs.
    They are the only ones with a big enough wallet.
    OK, what this posts needs now is a:bdance:
     
    Dennis0675 likes this.
  5. Manimal

    Manimal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southern US
    No, just good sense.
     
    broshfab4 likes this.
  6. djhurley92

    djhurley92 Active Member

    Location:
    York
    I do agree, it is nuanced and requires research to know if you're getting something good. I'm sure there are examples of records being cut from inferior tapes with better digital versions available although I don't think I've come across that myself. Regarding mastering vs. cutting, I've never had a disappointing vinyl cut by BG/CB/KG (except for pressing defects), whereas I have several records mastered at BG but cut by an unknown engineer elsewhere which sound average or poor.
     
  7. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Burnout from the smoke pit

    Location:
    Ohio
    To be clear, I spend much more money on AAA originals if not promo. I’m not that crazy.
     
  8. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    Sweet VA.
    Well OK...but promos suck!!!!:uhhuh:
     
    Dennis0675 likes this.
  9. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Burnout from the smoke pit

    Location:
    Ohio
    Oh, I’d never listen to them. The sound is god awful, I’m just way into label variations.
     
    Slick Willie likes this.
  10. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    Sweet VA.
    I wish I could say the same. I have at least one BG (I like bass) cut, although mastered elsewhere, that I was not enthralled with.
    But, as others say, it did sound good! I mean that sincerely -- 'cause it did, then I compared. All is relative.
     
  11. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    Sweet VA.
    :pineapple:
     
  12. AFCBRINGWOOD

    AFCBRINGWOOD Well-Known Member

    I don't understand why people always cite examples of digitally sourced LPs that sound great whenever this subject comes up. It's irrelevant because if the music sounds good on an LP, it will also sound good as a digital file (minus the surface noise).

    Yes, there are modern albums that sound better on the LP version but that's only because the mastering is better, not because vinyl is better. I really can't believe that on a mastering forum like this one that so many people still don't realise this.
     
    ukrules likes this.
  13. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    Sweet VA.

    Methinks it's been mentioned a time or two?
    But again, who cut the vinyl may not be who mastered it. Floyd reissues from 2011 forward are a classic case in point.
     
  14. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    I have an original Brother's in Arms and it sounds exceptional. As does my original D.S.O.T.M.

    I had an older Oppo player and now I have the 203, but I used both of these as transports into the Peachtree iNova with a couple of generation old ESS Saber DAC. Which I use for other digital sources.

    So often, when I put in a CD, my ears fatigue more easily than with vinyl. I find this to be the case, more often than not. Even when I run it through tube equipment, in addition to SS amps.

    I don't have any issues with digital music. I listen to streaming music from both Pandora and Spotify, no issues. But CD's often seem harsh to me in a way that most of my favorite vinyl albums do not, when played.

    Now, that I have a couple of nice turntables, one vintage and one new. I do plan on sourcing more material on both formats to do some closer comparisons.

    I will say, that you definitely need so premium equipment to get the most out of vinyl and it does not come cheap!

    When I first got my Rega RP6, I hooked up to the Decware ZP1 tube phono pre. It made the Polk LSiM707 towers sound better than I have ever heard them sound.

    But, there was excessive hum that I could not get rid of. and I had to monkey with the location of the preamp to get ti to reach past the Thorens to the Rega, so I disconnected the Rega and hooked The Thorens back up.

    I commissioned a custom tube phono pre and I still have not received it. So I wanted to try another preamp and try to investigate and see if it would clear up the hum. I have a small $49 SS preamp that I bought in an emergency when the phono pre that I was using went south.

    I hooked it up, the hum went completely away. Good, but also puzzling, as I wasn't having any hum issues using the Decware ZP1 with the Thorens TD-160 Super?

    What I also was surprised at is how good this little $49 Rolls SS phono-pre sounded with vintage vinyl. The RP6 has an Exact MM cartridge and the combination was not that bad at all. I think the combination took the edge off of some recordings, interesting. Not at all a bad little phono pre as a back-up.

    I have recently required some new re-releases of stuff like Tommy (The Who), Houses of the Holy (Led Zeppelin), Steppenwolf Live. Now all of this was originally on tape and it is unknown to me if the original tapes have been converted to digital or not.

    I do have more modern day music that is undoubtedly from modern digitally mastered sources.

    If the work is properly done, I am not convinced that it matters all that much at the end of the day. I believe that both can sound good and not so good.
     
    mike catucci likes this.
  15. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    Sweet VA.
    And in the end that may be all that really matters (in bold). It really all comes down to our experiences with a title. What have we heard before, what is it being compared to.
    And I suppose, in the end, does that matter. For each to decide I suppose.
     
    SandAndGlass likes this.
  16. vinylontubes

    vinylontubes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Katy, TX
    If you want to ear music, your ears can't hear digital. You have to get to analog for speakers to work. Digital doesn't work without a DAC. So digital isn't ever completely digital either. A conversion is required. Those of us with turntables allow an engineer to do the conversion for us on their gear. I would ask the OP if he thinks a digital transfer from an analog source makes any more sense then digitally sourced vinyl. You can't really completely get rid of tape hiss. It can be reduced, but it's there.

    And surface noise on a really good turntable is negligible. There will always be more none, but "not enough surface noise to make any difference to me" is a real thing too. There are shades of gray. And some shades of gray approach black. To me this similar to tape hiss on a CD. It's not perfect, but, perfection isn't the goal. Listening to music is.
     
    4011021 likes this.
  17. Gaslight

    Gaslight Cave dwelller

    Location:
    Northeast USA
    "Does vinyl only make sense if they're pressed from analog tapes?"

    No.
     
  18. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    Sweet VA.

    I'm not disagreeing, just curious, so why?
     
  19. 12" 45rpm

    12" 45rpm Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York City
    To each their own, but I think Brother in Arms sounds weird on vinyl. The bass and drums sound tiny. I like the other Dire Straits albums. They sound much fuller to my ears and more like a live rock band...
     
  20. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    I listen on these vintage Altec Lansing A7, Voice of the Theater, highly modified speakers that are now a four way completely horn loaded speaker.

    [​IMG]

    The bass horn to the Left of the A7 cabinet is a 15" commercial horn loaded sub, being driven by a 1,600-Watt Crown class "D" amplifier, running in bridged mono mode. The sub-woofer can maintain a SPL of 133dB's of continuous program material.

    [​IMG]

    So, to me and my ears, all rock albums can sound like a big rock band. :agree:
     
  21. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    Sweet VA.

    Methinks you might miss the point.:shake:
    Or you are just looking for another spot to post gear.
     
    Kristofa, xfilian and Morbius like this.
  22. Gaslight

    Gaslight Cave dwelller

    Location:
    Northeast USA
    Why does it make sense (sometimes)?
    Might be better sounding than other available options.
     
  23. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    Sweet VA.
    Possibly, but how does one ascertain that? By purchasing both and comparing?
     
  24. Gaslight

    Gaslight Cave dwelller

    Location:
    Northeast USA
    Use a streaming service like Tidal for a lossless version to compare to.
     
  25. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    Sweet VA.
    Cool, don't have that option here.
     

Share This Page