Does vinyl only make sense if they're pressed from analog tapes?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Remote Control Triangle, Jun 13, 2018.

  1. whaleyboy

    whaleyboy Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    I have killer digital and vinyl rigs and love both. I play whichever medium I feel like using at that moment. I like messing with records - it is a fun activity that I savor! I like playing bits, it is convenient and I can bounce around. Both sound great, both can sound bad and both give me immense pleasure.

    So, to the OP, yes, there is a point for me to buy digitally sourced records because I can play them when I want to play them ;)
     
    SandAndGlass likes this.
  2. Remote Control Triangle

    Remote Control Triangle Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Las Vegas
    My general thought process lately:

    Records made in the 50's: makes sense.
    Records made in the 60's: makes sense.
    Records made in the 70's: makes sense.
    Records made in the 80's: makes sense as most albums were still being tracked to tape, despite early digital stuff entering the market
    Records made in the 90's: still mostly making sense, assuming things were tracked to tape. A lot of albums are starting to lose that "fat" analog sound during this decade
    Records made in the 00's: making less sense, studios had been transitioning to digital for some time. Engineers constantly griping that they can't get digital to sound like they want it
    Records made in the 10's: Everything is digital. Studios are digital. Electronic music is huge and almost all of it recorded and mixed "in the box." Many engineers are now mixing 100% in the box (Serban Ghenea, Andrew Scheps, etc). If this is the case, isn't pressing records sort of missing the point?
     
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  3. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    I don't see how I am missing the point, I think that Brother's In Arms is an excellent sounding album on vinyl and when I play it, it does sound like a rock concert.

    This thread only started earlier this morning and already has been viewed close to eighteen hundred times. And is likely to be viewed many more times in the upcoming future, more so, if it stays active.

    Consider that many viewers are not forum members, just guests on the site.

    Every thread is different. I made a reply to 45rpm's post. Reading his post, people might get the impression to avoid this exceptional album. My reply was illustrated because, others who might be reading the thread, besides yourself, would probably have a better understanding of what I am saying and why I am saying it.

    I don't think the BIA sounds weird on vinyl, but I have an excellent original copy. In fact, this was the very first album that I ever played on these A7's. While I'm not sure of my motivation at the time, I doubt if I would have selected this as the first album to play on my newly acquired speakers, if I didn't think it was a good recording.

    Here, I was not finding conflict with 45rpm's comment, I was only having a little fun with it. Every album sounds different on different systems. It is completely natural that an album might not sound as good as others on a particular system.

    I can do the rock concert thing, way better than most. I started with rock concerts and A7's, back at age sixteen. If you want to step out of the home audio arena, then you need the real equipment to do so.

    This is an audiophile forum and this equipment is the real deal. On my system, the bass and drums does not sound tiny, just the opposite. Because that is what the system was specifically designed to do.

    I have plenty of vinyl that I have worked with over the years, which sounded lean. I have learned that there are some things that you just can't polish.

    Maybe some readers could offer up some of their opinions on the SQ of BIA on vinyl. I have no idea what it sounds like on anyone else's system, so I don't know, how others may perceive it sounding?
     
  4. broshfab4

    broshfab4 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    That's because there is no point, my friend. Love my vinyl but if I wanted a digital source I'd just buy the CD or SACD.
     
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  5. dkmonroe

    dkmonroe A completely self-taught idiot

    Location:
    Atlanta
    This is just another way of replaying the same simplistic point- that you think that there's no point to LP's unless they are all-analog. Sorry, but when I listen to an LP and it sounds great, that's self-justifying, whether there's digital in the chain or not. I've bought a lot of digitally sourced LP's in the last few years that sound great, and I enjoy them. Understanding that they are (or may be) sourced from hi-res digital and not tape doesn't make any difference in how they sound to me. Sounds good, is good. The point is to enjoy music. If you find that you really-o, truly-o CANNOT enjoy a digitally sourced LP, I mean you actually listen to them and you think they sound like crap, then that's an honest opinion, but if you're just gonna say, "Digitally sourced LP's just don't make sense to me whether I listen to them or not, because LP's just have to be AAA", then you're the one missing the point. Again, the point is to enjoy music, not be an analog purist.
     
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  6. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    Sweet VA.

    Perhaps you are missing the point?
    Is it any better than the digital offering - not does the vinyl sound good.
     
  7. dkmonroe

    dkmonroe A completely self-taught idiot

    Location:
    Atlanta
    So I just got the new Love Forever Changes 50th edition: It has an LP, a DVD, and four CD's. The original album proper appears on LP, DVD, and CD. The LP is digitally sourced. Is it OK with you if I enjoy all three?
     
  8. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    Sweet VA.

    Yes, BIA sounds good, no argument. For this title there are some Hi Res options for comparison. Is the vinyl better? I have not compared so can only wonder.
     
  9. Steve G

    Steve G Forum Resident

    Location:
    los angeles
    For a CD there's a hard limit so you have to use digital compression in order to make it fit and not distort. On vinyl there is natural compression and a different limit.
     
  10. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    Sweet VA.

    Well now, aren't you condescending.
    As you didn't seek my permission before purchase, I assume you know it's not needed now.
    So, the point of your post was....to be combative? A nuisance?
    Anyway, congrats, That looks like a sweet package!
     
  11. libertycaps

    libertycaps Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    ^This. I've been of same mind set since getting back into old school LPs circa Y2K.
     
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  12. George Blair

    George Blair Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Pants don't make much sense unless you're wearing them. Once on, you kind of want to walk around in them. My pants may be made digitally, I don't know.
     
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  13. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    Sweet VA.

    That makes absolutely no sense....yet I like it!
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
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  14. dkmonroe

    dkmonroe A completely self-taught idiot

    Location:
    Atlanta
    I was responding to your question. If that annoys you, don't ask me questions.

    The point is, does the LP sound good? In this package, the LP sounds GREAT. Digitally sourced and all. Is it better than the DVD? I prefer the LP, but they both sound great. No losers here. Am I gonna sit down and do a shoot-out and declare one the winner? Naw, don't really see the point.

    Anyway, I reject your apparent premise that the LP has to be better than any digital equivalent to be justified. I repeat, the point is to enjoy music. If I enjoy music presented on a particular LP, even if it's digitally sourced. that's what matters.
     
    Dan C likes this.
  15. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    Sweet VA.
    You were not responding to any question, you were just being sarcastic, asking if your purchase was acceptable with me. How is that answering my question?
    Do you even understand my question?
    I, as the OP seems to be, are just in the questioning mode. If you've found your answer - then cool.
    Give me space to find mine. If you choose not to compare, that's OK, but are you scared of what you may learn ….or just don't care.
     
  16. Davey

    Davey define a transparent dream

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    I guess you mean this in relation to making a modern CD where the dynamic range is reduced through compression and limiting so the average level can then be pushed to the max to compete with other bands in the loudness wars. There's certainly no format requirement to use compression, either digital or analog, to fit any normal music on a CD, there's plenty of room :)
     
  17. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    Sweet VA.

    Has any band ever used the full potential of the CD? Or the SACD?
     
  18. dkmonroe

    dkmonroe A completely self-taught idiot

    Location:
    Atlanta
    I responded to the OP who was basically making the simplistic case that if it ain't AAA it makes no sense.

    You challenged me, implying that I was somehow missing the point, the point being (according to you) "is the LP better than the digital offering?"

    For one thing, your summation of "the point" was incorrect, because that's not the point the OP was making. He was just asserting that LP's only make sense if they're AAA - nothing about whether the LP sounds better than the digital offering. For another thing, you don't seem to understand my point, which is that what sounds good is good. You reject that in favor of the quest for The Best.

    Give you space? You called me out, fella. I'll give you all the space you want, but if you tell me I'm "missing the point", I'm going to respond to that. At that point, you're in my space.
     
  19. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    Sweet VA.
    Again, the question - if your purchase was acceptable to me.
    So, your response was just condescending, no answer were you giving to any question.
    Just being combative.
     
  20. dkmonroe

    dkmonroe A completely self-taught idiot

    Location:
    Atlanta
    Yeah, my response to you was condescending, sarcastic, and deserved, for the reasons I've given. Wasn't combative, because I did not pick the fight.
     
  21. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    Sweet VA.
    I'm going to close with you by saying that picking a fight was never my intent, I did not treat you as you have treated me.
    I made a comment, true, but you took it to this level.
    Enjoy your purchase (you now have my permission)...and...
    [​IMG]
     
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  22. SpeedMorris

    SpeedMorris Forum Resident

    Location:
    Iowa
    I just got the Fleet Foxes first album vinyl last week. I liked the music, but the loud glaring CD was absolutely unlistenable. I wouldn't say that the L.P. eliminates the digititis, but it's a much more pleasant listen, the sharp edges smoothed out and the loudness mercifully relaxed. Well worth it.

    I also got Faul Macca's Chaos and Creation in the Back Yard in the same order and the results were similar. That CD was much more listenable than the FF, but still benefits from the volume decrease and dynamic range increase. Well worth it again.
     
  23. Mugrug12

    Mugrug12 Yellow brick, Black on black

    Location:
    San Francisco
    I don't think the question at hand is whether you can enjoy any format you want to. The question is that is there any sonic benefit to playing a digital sourced lp, relative to just playing the same master on a digital format.
    Also this is a funny place to say 'just enjoy the music' because it's the hardware section!
     
  24. libertycaps

    libertycaps Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    Still on the hunt for an NM- OG Forever Changes (Elektra / EKS 74013.) Hmmmm. I should take up the hunt again!

    Getting a NM- OG Four Sail LP was worth every moment and bright penny.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
  25. Remote Control Triangle

    Remote Control Triangle Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Las Vegas
    It's an analog format. Does it not make sense to be an analog purist when listening to an analog format? You have to admit that it is logical. The whole point of a record is that nothing is lost during mastering from analog sources, but there is some loss when mastering analog to digital.
     
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