Doesn't anyone else think DSD sounds phony?

I don't have Willie, but the distortion you hear on Tapestry is a part of the master tape. I woulnd't change a thing, and most fans might agree. It's on the ODE LP, the Sony CD, the remastered Sony CD, even the 4track Reel A&M released for the open reel market in the 70's. Not sure if it's on the cassette. I never owned it on that format

There are ways of fixing it, but that's changing history. You tocha' the sound, I break'a you face. Nah, seriously, you're hearing what the recording has always been, front and center, warts and all.

 

Agreed! I have listened to this SACD many, many times and it's wonderful. I bought the stereo release before the MC was released so I haven't heard that mix. Sckott, would it be worth it to sell the stereo to get the MC?

 

The Stranger doesn't sound as good as 52nd Street. I think it was even up for an engineering Grammy but not sure. Those Billy records were my textbooks growing up and I know every pop and crackle in them. The Stranger doesn't have an open sound like 52nd Street does. His 'Innocent Man' SACD sounds good too.

 

Good safety tip. Avoid this release!

 

Kinda like 'Up With People' doing the Beatles but without the football game.

All the rhythms are squared off like a high school band director would do. It's too sweet at points and too hokey at others. I thought I was going to get some nice background music kind of like the Jason Falkner instrumental Beatles album but this record has overly emotive and lethargic arrangements and the male singers are doing their best Vienna Boy's Choir imitations.

One point of interest. The .1 channel isn't for a sub. It's a height channel. I've heard the height channel once at an AES convention. The first time I heard DSD was Tom Jung playing some recordings he'd done and he had a speaker above us. Simply amazing sound stage.

He had these pyramid shaped Sony speakers about five feet tall. It literally sounded like the instruments were in the room with you. Anyone know about these speakers?

 

Well, each to their own of course. I really like the Telarc SACD of Erich Kunzel and the Cincinnati Pops Orchestra featuring King'Singers performing music of The Beatles.

I was born in 1950 and bought all singles and LPs by The Beatles as they came out. I grew up with that music and I know it backwards. It was part of my life. That being said, I have no CDs by The Beatles; though I have a collection of MFSL vinyls - but they are in another country.

I don't listen to The Beatles at home. I love it when I hear a song by them on the radio or at someone else's place, but I don't feel the urge to buy any CDs of The Beatles. I'll probably spin a few LPs when I go back to Australia for old times sake.

Given this strange situation, I was pretty thrilled by the Kunzel SACD. No one could possibly argue that the sound is not fabulous. I listen in stereo only, and don't care about sub channels.

I sort of appreciate what "yesman" is saying about the "rhythms are squared off". That makes sense. Kunzel is a pretty straight-ahead conductor; and he brings that to these arrangements.

But the timeless beauty of the Lennon-McCartney compositions shines through like Xenon headlamps through a San Francisco fog. Hearing these songs interpreted in this manner, with such clarity in diction, does make them sometimes seem a little hokey - I'm thinking of the Ringo Starr number, "Octupus's Garden". But on other songs, it's great.

The singing is so lovely, the music is wonderful and richly textured, it brings a new meaning to these well known songs. Surely no one could claim that any of The Beatles had great singing voices; so when the King'Singers do these numbers with absolutely spot on pitch and tone, it brings home the elegance of the songs, the music of the words, if you will.

The whole album may sound like a silly idea. But it works for me on a number of levels. All I can say is you don't want to make up your mind in advance.

Regards,
Geoff

 

Steve,

I just checked back at what FabFourFan wrote and he criticized the sound of the CD layer. I have no idea what that sounds like, and can only comment on the SACD layer.

Although I agree with you that we don't want to have ARGUMENTS about musical taste, I thought yesman was reasonable in stating his dislike of the Kunzel performance. I wanted to counter that with my reasons for liking it.

We should be able to offer well-thought out criticism of performances here, as long as we don't rebuke a fellow member for liking something that we don't like (or vice versa). I have derived a lot of useful information from posts here about the musical content.

Regards,
Geoff

 

I don't know if it *sounds* phony, but questions certainly
have been raised about the claimed 'purity' of the DSD recording
process.

IIRC, there was some debate about this on RAHE awhile back, and
in the audiophile presses.

 

Of course.

 

I can't imagine it sounding better than the MOFI.................

 

Ron, Tapestry was never available by MFSL. Only the Simple Things album was and was only available on vinyl. However, Tapestry was available on a Gold CD by Mastersound. I may agree with your statement after I hear the SACD.

 

Dave, I was referring to TOTO IV, not Tapestry. I've been real careful about any SACD purchases, since the ol' dinero is been a little less plentiful. I'd like to try Tapestry, since I don't have that on any format. I saw that Janis Joplin &BB&HC's Cheep Thrills came out on SACD, sounds interesting!

 

NO! Just a few phonies with SADiE or Sonic systems that call themselves mastering engineers.

 

Neither do I.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ...

Anything sounds phony compared to live unamplified music. I'm not sure what we are trying to unearth here.

 

Steve, I agree absolutely!

My original comment was on the weird sound of the CD layer on that Beatles music hybrid SACD from Telarc.

AS FOR THE PERFORMANCES ON THAT DISC,
I was just making a little extra joke when I called it "Badly Performed Beatles Music in Hi-Fi"!
That was NOT my original point.

Please accept my apologies if this caused some misunderstanding!!!


FFF

 

Re: Re: Doesn't anyone else think DSD sounds phony?

Here are the ones that I have bought and have been listening to:

Michael Jackson - THRILLER (2CH)
Bob Dylan - BLONDE ON BLONDE (2CH)
Boston - BOSTON (2CH)
Bangles - Greatest Hits (2CH)
Paul McCartney and Various Artists - THE CONCERT FOR NEW YORK CITY (MCH)
Jeff Beck - BLOW BY BLOW (2CH release)
Jeff Beck - BLOW BY BLOW (MCH release)
Miles Davis - KIND OF BLUE (2CH release)
Miles Davis - KIND OF BLUE (MCH release)
Mike Oldfield - TUBULAR BELLS (MCH)
Kunzel & Cinn. Pops with King's Singers - MUSIC OF THE BEATLES (MCH)
Blood, Sweat & Teats - BLOOD, SWEAT & TEARS (2CH)
Various Artists - Sony 2CH Sampler (ends with Cyndi Lauper)


Remember that what follows is just MHO!

Thriller and Boston sound like nothing I have ever heard. They sound like a vibrating computer, hard at work. Yech!!!! The Bangles also. BS&T, on the other hand, is less annoying and I have actually listened to it a few times, but it's still not right. TCFNYC (2CH) sounds impressive for what it is (and better than the CD release, I think). The Oldfield sounds nice enough, but TUBULAR BELLS is mostly disjointed textures and noodling, which seem to translate well to SACD. The Beatles covers disc is part Telarc spectacular and part accapella twits, and has the usual bowl-you-over sound - on the SACD. (This is a hybrid with a CD layer that sounds like a failed experiment in DSD-REDBOOK conversion.) Nothing on the Sony Sampler sounds especially good or especially bad - the Cyndi Lauper track does seem to have less of the 'buzzy' sound that plagues Jackson and Boston and the Bangles.

So that's pretty much it for now. Pretty disappointing.

So, this is why I am so anxiously awaiting the new SACDs that Steve Hoffman is mastering.
Surely they won't sound like these!!!

 

I was very dissapointed by Journey's Greatest Hits and Kenny Loggins Greatest Hits. Both sound muddy to me. I'm missing top end air. Damn fine mixes on some of that Journey stuff though... Faithfully, Open Arms... the Mike Stone mixes.

By the way, don't tell anybody I have the Kenny Loggins disc. Thanks.

 

Well, I originated this thread, and so far NOBODY has agreed with me that any SACD they have heard sounds phony.

In fact, nobody else seems to have anything at all critical to say about their experiences with sound of DSD/SACD.

I suppose that's your answer, right there, believe it or not.

 

It's an amazing format and any bad experiences you've had isn't a problem with the format but the source material and/ or the mastering. I'm sure it's not where digital audio will stop its evolution but it's a nice holding area. It more than satisfies me and I record things for a living.

 

The MFSL UDCD of Blood, Sweat & Tears, still reins supreme. If you have it, don't bother with the SACD. You will never think anything's as good.