DOUBLE FANTASY released 30 years ago today. What are your thoughts then & now?

On November 17, 1980, John's first album in 5 years, Double Fantasy, was released. What were your thoughts at the time when you bought it, and how do you feel about it now?

I had actually just recently turned 11, and I believe my parents gave me the album as a gift earlier in the evening on December 8th. But I remember buying the single of "Starting Over" weeks before, and it being all over the radio. I really liked the song at the time because it was so upbeat. I was a huge Beatles fan since I was 8 (it feels almost comical talking about my mind set when I was so young) and had many of their albums. I think I had John's Imagine album too.

Anyway, I was a bit puzzled by Yoko's stuff, as it was my first exposure to her music. "Kiss Kiss Kiss" really shocked me, but I grew to like most of her stuff on it. I was not a big fan of "Beautiful Boys" & "Yes, I'm Your Angel", and I feel pretty much the same way today. "I'm Moving On", "Everyman" & "Hard Times" are probably my favorites from her.

I liked most of John's stuff. I think "Watching The Wheels" & "Woman" are 2 of his best solo songs. I never cared that much for "Dear Yoko" or "Beautiful Boy", but (of course) they became more poignant after he was killed, as do many of the songs...the irony of "Starting Over". I always thought "Cleanup Time" was underrrated. It reminds me of a Walls & Bridges track but with positive lyrics. It was nice to have the rocking "I'm Losing You" to balance things out.

I know critics opinions were mixed at the time, but the album was doing well before John died, at least in the US. The album was at #11, and the single at #6, if I remember correctly.

I think I would rate John's material overall on par with Mind Games & Walls & Bridges. It also made me happy that John was so happy, and it shines through on the album. Of course, you can't really put the tragedy of what happened to him into words, but I'm glad he was in a good place at the end.

So what did (and do) you think of the album?

 

I remember where I was when I first heard the single. Thought it was Elvis. John Lennon never entered my thoughts in those days but I knew who he was. I was 17. Can't recall when I got the LP - I think it was after December 8. I brought two or three copies back to the store because of some sort of noise issue. I liked it and played it as one piece, not skipping Yoko's songs. I still play it that way and still like it.

 

I received a copy of the album on 12/08/80 which was my 14th B-day. It's hard to separate the music and experince of it from what happned. I can listen to it now and enjoy it,but it still makes me very sad. I grew up loving the beatles and listening to john's music , he was my hero. I took it very personally and it was a hudge loss for all of us who loved and admired him.

 

I had just started working my first real p/t job a few months before, so I finally has some money to buy records.

The fall of '80 was spent buying things like W&B, and getting excited for DF (having really liked the lead-off single.

I got the LP around Thanksgiving and pretty much just played the Lennon tracks (it was a lot of work to listen to the record because I had to keep getting up to move the needle.)

Then John was killed and that album became really hard for me to listen to...

To this day, I've only played it a handful of times since then.

Since it dredges up all of the old feelings, I prefer not to listen to it now.

 

I was 15 in 1980 and had been a big Beatles fan since buying my first album around Feb. 1980. I'd started with Pepper, then got Blue, Revolver, Red, then started working backwards: Let It Be, Abbey Road, White, Yellow Sub, etc. over the following months. By Dec, I'd worked my way back to Beatles 65, I think...

I remember sitting in 10th grade home room class, thumbing through the current issue of Newsweek and stumbling upon an interview with J&Y. A new album? His first in five years? From my favorite Beatle? Wow, was I psyched to hear something from that. A couple weeks later, sitting in "drafting" class (where the radio was always on), I remember hearing the "ding, ding, ding" and then hearing another guy in class saying "Oh no, this is that awful new John Lennon song"...

I put down my pencil and listened intently. A couple weeks later, I remember looking at the new lp and wondering whether I should shell out $7.99 for an album with only 7 songs that I really wanted to hear (I'd heard the most gawd-awful things about Yoko's music, despite never actually having heard it). Besides the single, Woman & Wheels & Losing You & even Cleanup Time were in pretty heavy rotation on the various FM stations I listened to in the Minneapolis area at the time, and I liked all of 'em.

I really think John's 1980 stuff is about his most "accessible" material since some of his vintage Beatle stuff (circa Hard Day's Night or Rubber Soul). The "leftovers" issued in '84 aren't nearly as rewarding to me, but they are unfinished, after all...

I think John sounds healthy, happy & reawakened on the DF songs. Over the years, we've been able to see that these songs were far more "crafted" than John let on at the time, some having gone through multiple evolutions before achieving their finished form, but I really think that's fascinating. Had John ever worked in such a fashion before? Generally, the Beatles recorded too quickly for him to tinker with songs in such a a way, and most of his 70s output was similarly done in diary-like fashion, as commentary/confession on what he was experiencing. Yet the Lost Lennon Tapes & Anthology show that some of his '80 songs gestated and morphed from one thing to another - it's sort of tantalizing to envision what his future work style would have been like...

With all the tawdry books that came out in later years, it's also hard to get to the truth of what John Lennon was like in 1980. Many believe that he was still a pretty screwed up guy, based on Goldman & others. I can't help but listen to the songs that he issued, and the vibrant, intelligent wit that he displayed in those final interviews and think THAT was the real thing. At least it was for me.

In one of the other threads, there's an audio clip of John signing one of his final autographs on 12/8 and it's just unbearable to listen to. He's so pleasant, so accomodating, and you just wanna scream at the speakers: "DON'T GO HOME!".

 

Yoko's stuff still sucks.
I thought after a few years and broadening of my musical tastes I would finally 'get' her tracks. But no, it is still terrible.

Sometimes, digital wins. I can create a playlist with only John's stuff!

 

1980: The idea of new music by John Lennon was very exciting.

I never heard the album until AFTER the events of 8 Dec 80.

I was in USAF Basic Training from the end of October thru mid December. I don't remember seeing the seeing the album to buy until I went home for the holidays, and then bought it.

I really don't remember what I thought about it - I was overwhelmed by his death, the major lifestyle changes of joining the military (I had NO idea what to expect), and it was everywhere.

I played John's songs a lot. Probably made a cassette with just his tracks.

I thought it was good - and it was the last thing he did, so you held on tight...

2010: There are some tracks I still like, but I'm not that keen on the production (sorry Jack). It's very MOR, isn't it? I found the "new" stripped version quite engaging, but as the years have gone by, I've really lost interest in listening to John's solo stuff. I go thru periods from time to time of listening to "Walls & Bridges", which I think is his best solo album of his later period, and clearly reflects his state of mind during the "lost weekend".

But I rarely listen to solo John Lennon anymore.

And to be honest, despite the joy of life John was clearly feeling in those DF songs, listening to them just brings me back to 8 Dec 1980, and that still hurts like hell, and it will never go away.

 

Love this album. It has always been something special to me. My brother bought the Lp just a week before John was killed and I played it every day for weeks.

 

It still reminds me of those 80s cassettes with one artist you don't like on one side, and an artist you like on the other. Joko has no place on any recorded medium let alone John Lennons solo albums. What was John thinking.

 

It was like hearing an old friend. I remember hearing it waiting in the car while my mom was shopping somewhere. A nice, unadulterated memory of DF.

Heard some of Stripped Down this weekend in the studio, played through a Neve board and the accuracy of players like Andy Newmark just blew me away. I had no idea they were going for a "rough mix of the day's tracking" kind of feel. John's voice felt and sounded like he was THERE.

All these years later, having been married once, having said goodbye to many loved ones.....it gives one a perspective on hearing another's marital bliss....but it's still nice to hear from an old friend.


Dan

 

I'll start by saying that I personally think that the lyrics to "Watching The Wheels", could very easily be the best that John ever wrote and he wrote a lot of great ones, believe me.

Maybe it's because I have the "hits" from "Double Fantasy", on "The John Lennon Collection" CD and that I've never liked the Yoko tracks, that until the recent "Stripped Down" 2-CD set came out, I never owned "Double Fantasy" on a CD! Just a few nights ago, I sat my wife down and played her the "stripped down" versions of "Watching", "Beautiful", "Woman" and "Starting Over", which I enjoyed hearing myself, just for a change. My wife turned to me and said this is too sad lo listen to this album and I truly get what she means. It's almost like John was just starting a new chapter in his recording career and then...

For me, hearing the "stripped down" versions of the hits caused me to hear the parts that were missing from the "hit" versions. While in hindsight, it almost seems like Jack Douglas might have "overproduced" the "hit" versions, especially after hearing the "stripped down" versions, songs especially like, "Woman", almost needs that "heavenly sounding" choir, to properly set the mood for me. All in all, listening to "Double Fantasy" today just makes me miss John even more than I already do.

Chris C

 

There was a bootleg - "Double Honey", I think - that compiled only John's tracks from both Double Fantasy and Milk & Honey.

 

It's a tough listen...He sounds so content and happy....
It makes me sad...Because he was murdered it seems he and the rest of us got cheated ....It also reminds me of those days of the world mourning his death...

 

Double Fantasy was still on my turntable the entire week up to the day John died.

After CD came out a few years later, I told friends of mine, "the great thing about CD is, we can finally listen to Double Fantasy and leave out all the Yoko songs!" For 1984, that was very high-tech -- almost two decades before iPods.

I have mixed feelings on Yoko as a person -- I don't think she's the conniving witch that a lot of people believe her to be, but strictly as a singer... uh-uh. :thumbsdn:

 

As a 13 year old: I loved all of John's contribution but 'Dear Yoko' was my favorite. I just had a laugh at Yoko's songs.

Now: I think John's stuff is great and I really like the unique production/band. There are lots of interesting little bits that really add to the record (Levin's bass intro to Cleanup Time, the tasty steel drums, etc.). Also, it contains some of Yoko's best material.

BTW, Ken Sharp's 'Starting Over: The Making of John Lennon and Yoko Ono's 'Double Fantasy'' is an excellent book comprised of quotes from those involved with the albums creation. HIGHLY recommended.

 

Remember it so well. Working part time in the record department of the local Woolworths, co-worker Ron comes in and says "does John Lennon have a new record, because I heard a song that sounds just like him". So we turned on the Audiovox stereo in the store and listen for it and sure enough, Starting Over comes on and the voice is unmistakeable; the record itself is a little retro, but a classic nonetheless. I loved it then, and I love it now. It took me a while to locate a copy of the 12" single with the extended outro.

I am not as much of a fan of the rest of the album, but the melodies are very strong and "Woman" is one of those classic AM radio ballads that Paul wrote with such ease when he was with the Beatles, but had so much trouble writing once he went solo (unless you count "My Love", which I don't)

 

Couldn't care less – then & now.

 

Then:

Now:

 

lived in chicago then listening to WLS, the Loop, XRT..
the album was all over the radio & as a 13yr old beatle fan I loved it.

still enjoy it greatly. the album offers different hue as the years roll on.

 

Although I never knew or met the man, it STILL hurts that he is gone, especially how he went.

I bought the album the day it came out back in 1980 and was really happy for new material from John. Was glad to see he was "back" in the business. Then hearing about his death, I went totally numb. Shock? You bet. Went to work the next day numb. People who knew me steered clear. Some pushed my buttons about his passing. Not a good thing to do. I asked those - you just don't get it do you?

Thirty years ago, this album still packs a punch. With CD's, easier to pass over the Yoko tracks(sorry, just can't warm up to her "input"). I listen to the songs and just wonder - what could have been. That coward who murdered him will NEVER realize what he stole from the world.

 

I was 10 when the album came out, so I wasn't really exposed to it for a few years. It was a great album when I first heard it in my teen years, and it's still great.

 

Then...We were big Beatles fans in those days, and especially Lennon fans, so the news that he was releasing a new album was big exciting news. Unfortunately when we started hearing the album, it was a big disappointment. It just seemed very AOR, unoriginal and tame musically, and the lyrics kind of greeting cardish. The only track I liked much was "Kiss Kiss Kiss" and that was Yoko's. So it quickly went from a must-get to a never-gotten. I heard it at parties and things a lot, but I never actually owned it.

Now.. I've just moved on I geuss, no real interest in it at all.

 

That's what it seemed like to me, but events soon made that opinion unspeakable for awhile. I often wonder if DOUBLE FANTASY would be as well-received then and now had his death not turned it into a Final Statement, instead of the tepid market re-entry it sounded like.

I thought his tracks were as safe and boring as anything he accused Paul McCartney of releasing. "Starting Over" sounded like something from GREASE or HAPPY DAYS and the other singles were equally conservative and unmemorable. Hallmark sentiments, as you say, from the guy who released the music on my SHAVED FISH comp?

 

I was 21 and had already been a huge fan for years. Upon hearing "Just Like Starting Over" I remember a profound dissapointment. It just sounded like an oldies rehash with no edge or originality. I like the other Lennon songs on the album much more but still, for me, the creative spark was just gone.

Recorded well though !

 

Born in '64, I was a Jr. in high school, and between 16 & 17 when it came out. I was a total Beatles-Lennon fanatic, but also massively into New Wave & Punk.
I was totally blown away by the album. I loved the Lennon material, & was thrilled to dig the Yoko stuff too, though certainly not as much as the Lennon stuff.
I loved the romantic concept, and the courage it took to do a dialogue album, as opposed to solo albums. I thought it worked incredibly well.
To say it's aged well is quite an understatement...even with divorcing it from the events surrounding it- which give it undeniable weight- it, along with "Milk & Honey" stand up as top shelf works- both for John Lennon material, Yoko Ono material, & as "JohnAndYoko" albums. I tend to think of those two albums as two chapters of one piece of work.
I'd rank John's songs from 1980 with any of the other highest points of his solo career (probably '70 & '71- though '73 & '74 were pretty great too), and it'd probably my single most favorite most of the time- if I had to name just one. I also think that those two albums are just amazing in both concept & execution. It was the fullest, most sustained, fruition of their artistic collaboration, and that Ono's work could stand next to Lennon's successfully is a true testament to how far she'd grown as an artist...both McCartney & Harrison pulled it off as well, but to say it's no easy task is a huge understatement.
Both "Double Fantasy" & "Milk And Honey" remain in the upper most echelon of my most favorite & treasured albums.