Dream Theater Album By Album Thread

Did he use it in other tunes later on? I had a Stick around the time (I was terrible with it, however) and was extra thrilled at the kind of exposure it got from this song. I had thought he abandoned it after this.

 

If you've heard the NM demo, you'd see you were right - he sounds pretty clumsy on the thing.

I have always liked FII more than most fans, it seems. I really enjoyed Derek's keyboards, and while it does have an embarrassingly desperate attempt at hitting the charts (You Not Me) and Peruvian Skies isn't a favorite, either, it has a nice variety of styles and sounds that keeps it refreshing. This is the last time they would take real risks with their sound, IMO, as with SFAM they seemed to shift into basic style that they've followed ever since.

 

Listening to Lifting Shadows Off A Dream and am surprised at its lack of favor. Maybe I'm biased 'cause I'm doing the Marillion ABA thread here but this song has a Marillion vibe, maybe that's why it's a personal favorite. But the bass harmonics, the guitar parts during the verses, and LaBrie's dynamics on the refrains are gorgeous. I can't think of any other song they did like this except maybe some stuff on Six Degrees but those songs aren't as strong (though I look forward to revisiting that one to see how I feel all these years later).

Scarred is the one track on Awake not holding up for me. It just kind of goes on and on and doesn't... do... anything. Taking it out means you get the lovely (IMO) Lifting followed by the unique and sublime Space-Dye-Vast, and that is a perfect way to end the album.

 

Peruvian Skies- Pink Floyd? I hear Robin Trower- Bridge of Sighs, almost exact! Love FII, don't care what the band or most fans think, even You, not me, I think is better than the Linkin Park sounding attempts at fandome on some of the latest discs. I liked Derek in the band, I liked Jordan better before he joined DT! Miss Mike in the band. Seems like now James, John, and Jordan see themselves as prog metal "Gods". IMO.

 

I'm so happy to see love for FII! It's my favorite album of theirs as well (tied with Scenes). Despite the fact that the album WAS "butchered", you would never know unless you knew so beforehand. It's one of their best flowing albums imo and I really love the album's feel/ambiance/mood.

With Derek on board, I think he helped DT gel into a singular band unit a bit more. Not that they weren't previously, but I think he really brought them together some after the whole shebang of Kevin's departure.

The first DT live video I saw was 5 Years In a Livetime. That video opens up with Burning My Soul from Paris. THAT recording is what firmly stuck DT in my head for real.

That version of BMS just ROCKS and the song itself is so catchy on top of that. I'm a sucker for a great hook.

The only weak track is You Not Me. The less said, the better. Everyone knows this.

As much as I adore the album, I always think how fantastic it could've been in its original form. Where Are You Now, Raise The Knife, etc....

To anyone that has doubts about the material on FII, I implore you to get the official bootleg of the demos from the sessions. FII really could've rivaled Awake head-on in my opinion. Once again, I love it to death and think its great as-is, but it could've been so much more....

 

Funnily my first contact with Awake was through a cassette release, where they took Scarred out, so that was exactly the sequence I got used to: Mirror -> Lie -> Lifting Shadows -> Space-Dye Vest. Untouchable, first Dead Can Dance mixed with crushing death-metal riffs, then hard-core assault, next delicate progressive ballad and finally bleak ambient mourning.

However, when I finally got the CD I immediately fell in love with "Scarred". Extra eleven precious minutes to their magnum opus, with unmistakable keyboard work from Kevin Moore building the haunted atmosphere. A superb piece; if I had to throw anything off it would be rather "Innocence Faded", the only weaker point of "Awake".

When "A Change of Seasons" arrived and I learnt that Kevin was replaced I was not happy, but with time the title suite would grow on me. I am not crazy about it like others, but I think it holds up very well. It was quite cool turn into more classic progressive/hard rock territory, demonstrating that the band was still willing to explore, that would be later confirmed by their next album "Falling into Infinity".

Although I cannot really stand the power rock balladry on FFI (well, "Hollow Years" sounds like Sting on a bad day), these are only three shorter tracks, while the rest of the material ranges from very good to excellent. My favourite number is the soulful "Lines in the Sand", probably the best DT composition ever in my book, which together with other non-sappy numbers from the album worked very well in a live setting.

There are some delicious renditions of this material on the subsequent live release documenting the lineup with Derek Sherinian - "Once in A LIVEtime". Highlights include "Lines in the Sand", "Just Let Me Breathe", "Trial of Tears", "Peruvian Skies" mixed with some older material, like powerful take of "Voices" and kaleidoscopic "Scarred". Like on the Marquee set, one would wish to get a full rendition of "Learning to Live", but again it can be remedied by another official bootleg, "Tokyo, Japan, 10/28/95" from the Awake tour:

http://www.ytsejamrecords.com/ProductCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=15&idcategory=8

It was actually the stage where Derek contributions truly shone. Whenever necessary the cat could easily emulate Moore's dark gothic landscapes, and in the next section smoothly switching mood with vintage tones and old school chops, making his shred-inclined bandmates get a bit funky and play in a more soulful way.

One could read that the reason for sacking Derek was his excessive showmanship. However I sense that it was rather the clash of music styles and aesthetics, just like in the case of the previous keyboardist's departure. In the person of Jordan Rudess they finally found an ideal soulmate to pursue their preferred prog-metal-fusion direction. It was only confirmed during the new drummer recruitment, when they would take care to discard all the candidates who could have deviated them from the chosen path, despite the painful staleness that had crept in.

 

What happened was that Petrucci and Portnoy, along with Tony Levin, recorded Liquid Tension Experiment 1 and 2 with Jordan Rudess and they clicked together.

 

While I agree there are great songs and moments in those demos, I do think the label and Shirley made the right choices in paring back the material. I think Portnoy was way out of line in trashing what Shirley did with the songs, and is evidence of the budding control freak he would become. And if Mike had such a problem with him, why invite him back to fix mixes on SFaM?

Also, one of the other things I read is that Shirley made them finish a song before starting the next, as they used to track everything and then come back and do individual parts. I feel like this is why each song sounds so different, and that was also a good move.

In short, I feel like it is always easy to blame the producer, and a lot harder to try to take outside feedback and work productively with it.

 

Loving the commentary here. One thing I would add is now that Portnoy is out, it is pretty clear he was the most "progressive" element of the band from the range of choices he has made in his work. It is a shame none of that made into later DT albums.

 

To me portnoy seems like the metal guy

 

I think Portnoy was just the biggest creative force in the band. He contributed to music, lyrics/concepts, art direction, and produced live releases. So to me he's both the prog guy and the metal guy. I was surprised to hear he and the band parted on unfriendly terms; I hadn't paid close attention to the band since Train of Thought, but I can't imagine a DT without Portnoy.

I'm not a *huge* fan of Falling into Infinity because I think some songs drag on too long and it clearly isn't equal to the three great preceding albums, but I still like it.

 

Have you heard his other projects? I would only classify two of the six I've heard as "metal". The other stuff varies from classic rock styled to contemporary prog. Quite a broad spectrum IMO.

 

I didn't mean to bash Shirley - I'm actually a huge fan of his and will check out albums just on the fact of his involvement.

I just meant that, for as great as it is, imagine how much better it even might've been.

 

Oh, I didn't mean to imply you did! But Mike P definitely eviscerated him in the liner notes to the demos.

 

Yea, I think that's unfair. It's not Shirley's fault - blame the record company instead. Shirley did what he was hired to do and had it been another producer, there's a very good chance it could've come out like crap.

I mean, hell, Iron Maiden's stuck with him since 1998 - the guy knows his stuff. Plus, they used him to mix Live Scenes later on anyways.

He did what he was hired to do and did a damn fine job.

 

I really dig 'Falling into Infinity'. I was volunteering at a college radio station at the time and if I recall, Elektra was aggressively pushing this album, judging from the promo singles and the EP they sent the station. Thankfully I managed to keep the promo discs thanks to the station manager. I really didn't care for 'You Not Me' and really loathed playing it when it appeared on the playlist. I did play 'Take Away My Pain' at the request of people who would call in due to a broken heart. So pretty much this album stayed in my rotation for most of '97 and '98.

 

I'm not sure it's entirety fair to compare Myung's stick work to T-Lev and T-Gunn. Might as well toss in Sean Malone while we're at it. These guys have played a Stick or a Warr for years, and I'm not sure John had.

By the way... Love the Marillion thread...

 

Not sure. It has such a unique sound. I don't really equate it with any of their other songs though...

 

I really like Lifting Shadows Off A Dream. Space Dye Vest IS sublime. It's my favorite DT song with Kevin on Keys. I was just listening to OSI's 'Blood' earlier. Kevin is amazing, especially paired with Jim Matheos and Gavin Harrison...

 

Here is an example from the aforementioned live album, where Derek makes rather stiffly starting machine go funky:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=IetG94WEEWs#t=562

Now compare it to the Jordan's take from Budokan, that drowns the nicely grooving rhythm section with his typical soulless shredfest:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3u7OaTIFNk#t=537

 

I know I've seen it in other album credits. I'll be sure to call it out later in the thread as appropriate.

But yeah, JM was clearly not on the Levin/Gunn level. I was never that impressed with Levin's playing until I heard him on a Stick.

 

I meant to thank whoever first brought up OSI. I knew about Chromakey, but not that project, and found it on YouTube. The question now is, where can I buy the albums? The label seems to not be carrying them anymore?

 

wow i just won on ebay black clouds and silver linings brand new for $6 and thats including shipping

 

Yeah, I found the special edition used for pretty cheap. The covers disc is good mAterial.

 

I'm selling a promo copy of OSI Blood in my sale thread. I'm pretty sure it's less than $10.



But yeah, Falling To Infinity......I really developed a lot of hate for this record when it came out and much of it, some of fairly and some of it unfairly, was pointed at Derek.

From the get go I never thought he was the right fit in Dream Theater, but I don't think there was much of a choice between who was available and willing to do the gig at the time as being the keyboardist in this band is far from a cakewalk.

I don't really want to get too far into it as it is moot and past history and him eventually leaving which pretty much righted the wrong in my opinion (I actually love Derek's post Dream Theater fusion work quite a bit and he has improved his craft since.)

My reasons for not liking the album much are based on a number of factors, including label interference, lack of live cohesion -- part of which was Derek's onstage "persona" including those blasted lava lamps-- the band just wasn't as tight and mistakes were made, and Mike's substance abuse problem (mostly alcohol) which wasn't publicly known at the time and also affected the live performance in my opinion. Certainly the live performances were on the "light side" which in hindsight could have been because of those outside pressures. Nothing against Derek personally... He's a great guy -- I met him a few times when he was in the band. But I suppose he became a lightning rod for me and some others who were disillusioned with the band at that time.

I didn't really like the more commercial direction they were heading in and even Anna Lee has not improved any with age for me. (I'm not against the Dream Theater ballad either. I love Hollow Years from that same album.)

There are some great songs on this record...Hollow Years, Lines In The Sand, New Millennium , Trial Of Tears, You Not Me (in spite of Desmond Child) but the whole context of what was happening to this band just left a bad taste in my mouth.

In hindsight, it does offer a contrast to the "Dream Theater by numbers" approach of the last decade-plus and I've come to appreciate more without the context of the baggage in which it was created. Still hard to watch or listen to a live show from that period though.

That said, Anna Lee is still my least favorite Dream Theater song ever...half of Systematic Chaos lies just outside small neighborhood.