Dual turntable with high end stereo

Who out there uses dual turntables with vintage or modern high-end stereos? I'll be honest. I've been through three new modern turntables, 2 vintage Thorens turntables and another high-end vintage turntable and I find the Dual 1210 the best sounding of all. I swapped out the same cartridge with the other turntables and the Dual seems to be almost perfect with my system. The system is vintage McIntosh amplifier and preamplifier with duntech Marquis speakers. I recently added the mp100 phono preamplifier and wow...what a difference that piece makes as well.. The Dual was completely redone by dualcan in Canada and perhaps that is the difference. Just curious to know how many out there still use a duel with a high-end vintage system.

 

Out of the four, main, central European-made turntable brands in the vintage era which EXCLUSIVELY were dedicated to *idler drives*: Dual was (probably) the most "utilitarian" of them.
The "pecking order" would've gone: 1. Lenco; 2. Perpetuum Ebner ("PE"); 3. Elac/Miracord; and, 4. Dual. Considering, though, the overall build standards of German/Swiss componentry from that time(!): that's NO WAY KNOCKING IT --- but you had to, for example, go further up the model range with Dual (a 1229 would've been the highest idler drive in the line of your model) than; with what those other companies produced across-the-board (in terms of: plinth weight, platter weight, pitch control, anti-skating adjustment, etc.).
Duals hold up better now than what GARRARD -their main competitor from Britain- had "devolved" into making by the '70s, HOWEVER --- (when I had a 1219 from a flea market back in the '90s) TWO AREAS OF MAINTENANCE which *greatly* affect their performance are: the pliability of the rubber idler spinning the platter (if it's cracked or hardened: the speed and rumble noise will sound unplayable) AND the conductivity of the clips where the cartridge bracket snaps-in under the headshell (if those have any oxidation on them: you'll, either, get a hum that'll drive you mad trying to figure out the source of; or the high frequencies will just sound DULL...*without* IT being due to the cartridge).

 

This is an intriguing idea. I don't really have a high end system, but I do have a Benz Micro Wood SL on a Thorens 16p into a Benz Micro MC preamp, into cheapo vintage tube amps, and out to a nicely homemade pair of planar speakers.

At some point this year I am going to swap in my Dual 1009 SK2, with the Benz cart, and see how it does in that system.

I sure love this idler drive deck, with a Grado Green/8MZ, Pioneer SX-737, FX Audio Tube-001 tube buffer, into a nice 90s pair of bookshelf speakers (Audio Pro A2.14 Live - I had to look).

It has taken me a while to get this turntable running perfectly - adjusting the tonearm so it auto stops and auto starts, lubed the idler wheel, motor, pulley and bearing, cleaned what needed to be cleaned, and macgyvered a pair of STEUERPIMPELS from some dead cable insulation.

Great table, the Dual 1009 SK2.

 

If you get a Dual, you need to rebuild it yourself, if you are mechanically inclined or buy one that's been professionally rebuilt. It makes me crazy to hear some folks complain about a 50 year old turntable that has never had any maintenance. That just doesn't make any sense.

That said, I have zero plans to replace my Dual 1219.

 

I'll go one further and speculate that a working and well setup humble Dual CS 505 will perform very well indeed with any partnering equipment - modern or vintage... It was a 'budget' TT but with a decent cartridge it is capable of playing some sweet, sweet music...

 

I don't think I qualify on the high end of things ( Mapletree tube preamp, Conrad-Johnson 2300A/Jolida 502 P power amps, Magneplanar 1.7 speakers) but I use both a Rega P3 and a Dual 1019 in my system and I find that the drive and just sheer vitality of the Dual 1019 are wonderful. I also have an HSU sub and have measured response down to 20 Hz. Having said that rumble is simply not a problem. The Rega may be more detailed and "smooth" sounding but when it comes to just fun listening to music the Dual is hard to beat. Incidentally, I found the short arm of the Dual to be compatible with a variety of cartridges. I alternate Denon DL-103, Shure M91 ED with JICO SAS, and AT 440 mla. The deck sounds great with all of them, of course with the different "personalities" each cartridge provides. To adjust for VTA in the Dual I use a 4 mm cork mat.

 

Interesting, but I agree. I had a CS505 that I traded in for a brand new Sota and there was very little in performance difference that the justified the huge price increase. One of the worst audiophile decisions that I ever made. I loved that Dual.


M~

 

I sometimes use my Doctor Dual-restored 1019 in my system, and its performance is very impressive. There is no audible rumble either!

 

Amen to this!! I love mine

 

I feel the same, I have a couple of Dual 1219's.

I also have a restored a upgraded vintage Thoren's TD-160 Super and an upgraded Rega RP6.

 

I run a 1019 next to my Prime Signature most of the time.

Sound is great.

 

My secondary turntable is a fully restored Dual 1019 with a Shure M91/ Jico eliptical, and I love it. I would definitely classify it as an audiophile turntable even though it's a 50 year old record changer. It has a signature sound that is so enjoyable to listen to.

Plus I can walk away and know the tonearm will return to it's rest and not get stuck in the runout groove!

 

The Dual in my avatar is my first "real" turntable I bought new in '79 or '80. It's been a great table, but I don't listen to it like I used to. More so in the summer as it's connected to the bedroom system which also has speakers outside. I only have a handful of albums I play on it, as I save my newer albums for the Rega. During the summer, it's really nice sitting on the deck with a cigar and nice refreshing beverage and listening to an album.

Like #jaybird396, it's nice to know the tonearm will return so no rush back to catch it.

 

I know of plenty of Dual changers used in very nice period high end systems, some of them as main daily drivers. Paired with Altec, JBL speakers and amplfication, HK Citation, McIntosh, Electro-Voice, Crown (then also a high end audio brand in the consumer world), SAE, McIntosh, Marantz, and others. Dual's finest in good order got paired with a lot of high end company in that time frame, when the Dual 1000 and 1200 family's best was new. Don't be embarrassed about a good Dual, I've enjoyed my fair share of nicer Duals over many years.

 

I’ll join this choir. I bought a garage sale Dual 1219 a few years ago for $3.99, had it restored and put an Ortofon 2M Blue, and later, a Bronze on it. About a year ago, the 1219 started skipping toward the end of some albums because the tone arm would not go all the way down. Which had to do with the cueuing mechanism.

I got restless and bought a Rega RP3 which, compared with the Duals, sounded thin and sometimes developed a noticeable flutter. What a disappointment that was, especially with the high regards it gets from many here. Also a drag that the seller would only give me store credit when I returned it. Even though I had it for just a week.

Anyway, this led me into a search on Craigslist that quicky resulted in my buying a 1229, which is now my daily driver and I couldn’t be happier. Sounds great, using it to digitize all my LPs.

 

I was recently given a vintage Planar 3, and it had terrible wow and flutter. A new belt (cheap orange silicone from that famous auction site) pretty much solved that, but I had to place a rubber band on the sub platter rim, to get it close to 33.33RPM.
Since I was given the Rega, I have fixed up a Dual 1009 SK2, and a Technics SL-D2 (and modded it with plasticine damping and a DIY fluid damper for the tonearm), and since then I haven't listened to the Rega. That must say something.

 

This was my impression of the Rega RP3. It sounded weak.

 

Especially given that (at least my) Dual cost about half what the Rega cost, after tuneup

 

Count me in: my brand new 50-year old 1219 arrived today courtesy of fixmydual. I don’t have a high-end system, but it is contemporary. I’m loving it! I may never stop listening!

 

I've owned a fair amount of turntables. Three were Duals. I still regret selling my 1229Q.

 

My Dual 1219 had a test done where I had the pleasure of putting the same cart and stylus on it and also my homemade idler (Pioneer MU-7 in baltic birch with Jelco SA 750E arm). The cart was the new AT-VM95ML and I had a second one to break in for a friend.

The results?

Tonality was similar - full natural, not spotlit in any one area...

The only difference was probably the lack of adjustable azimuth (oh you can bet I am thinking how to do that on the DUAL by manipulating the headshell and not the sled by means of the fastening screw underneath, there is some minor play) and it meant that some imaging wasn't as "oh wow" as on the Pioneer/Jelco...

I now want one for the 1219 because really it didn't leave me wanting at all.

Beautiful turntable. I restore them myself and go through everything on them.
Heck of a project to do it completely and fully with no short corners...that includes cleaning and re oiling using the 4 different kinds of oils and greases that make the Dual work. Oh and the fun bits...opening the motor and drilling out the rivets and cleaning that and relubing...and putting silicone oil into the barrel of the cue lever lift mechanism! FUN!

But seriously....it is fun when that thing is spinning and you have it working just like it did in 1970....and its 2019....think about that...

 

I have a CS 5000, but that's no idler. Also have a 1219, but it's got the intermittent HUM thing happening, currently (heh), and needs to be serviced.

 

I don't remember the model number but I bought a high end Dual in 1974, loved it.

 

Spinning original copy of Miles Davis LiveEvil right now on mine. Just like 1970/1971!

 

I have been so happy with my current Dual 510/Grado found it at the thrift store. It was just like new. Took it apart relubed motor and main bearing. Shortened the interconnects, cleaned and treated all electrical connections.