Duke Ellington lovers: Daybreak Express, perfect example of 1933 stamper on later 78

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Steve Hoffman, Mar 20, 2010.

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  1. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    This is sort of a continuation of the Ellington thread from last month.

    This dude on YouTube made this video of his WWII era pressing of DAYBREAK EXPRESS, recorded in 1933. This 78 record is from 10 years later and is probably worth (since it's not a Scroll Victor label) 2 bucks. But, as you can see from the video, it's from the original stamper (you can tell by the wide lead in groove space with NO actual lead in groove) and the double lead-out groove.

    Dig the reed section about 1/2 way through. It's hard to play s***! Even though this is a typical "fixed groove" recording from the era, the dynamic range is clearly visible when you look at the revolving record. Cool. Again, this is not some collector's item, this is a two dollar record, but gives you the ORIGINAL sound of the recording session of 1933 as it was recorded live to beeswax..

    So, listen to the great sound of this record even on this guy's mediocre old Garrard table. If you love Ellington and want to hear his original stuff in the best sound for the smallest amount of money, find some of these reissue 78's that use original metal stampers from the 1920's-30's, an old Dual turntable that plays 78's or something like it with a Shure M44 cart & green 78 stylus and have a ball. When you crank this stuff it rattles the roof and just sounds great...

    An original N- Scroll Victor of this record, same stamper but pressed 10 years earlier might cost $100.00 or even more these days. They probably only sold 500 copies of this record in 1933; not a good year for the music industry.

    This goes for all the "Recording Ban" jazz reissues. Most (not all, but most) used original direct-cut stampers but pressed on quiet 1940's shellac with the common labels. Perfect sounding records at no collector's prices. I have a bunch of Armstrongs, Hendersons, Ellingtons, Boswells, etc. on these reissue 78 labels (Red Columbias, Bluebirds, common Victor, etc.) and they all sound wonderful, all pressed from original vintage metal, some rare alternate takes, all worth about nothing. Amazing time machine sound though...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyM2HfRLDn8
     
    Steve Hoffman, Mar 20, 2010
    #1
  2. Richard the one in Texas

    Richard the one in Texas Forum Resident

    Location:
    2 inches West of where I was 365 days ago
    Tops! Thanks for posting.
     
    Richard the one in Texas, Mar 20, 2010
    #2
  3. SuperFuzz

    SuperFuzz Forum Resident

    Location:
    NYC USA
    Nice! Thanks for sharing.
     
    SuperFuzz, Mar 20, 2010
    #3
  4. LeeS

    LeeS Music Fan

    Location:
    Atlanta
    That record is moving fast! :laugh:
     
    LeeS, Mar 20, 2010
    #4
  5. Matt I

    Matt I Forum Resident

    Location:
    Alabama
    That did sound very good! Thanks for posting it.
     
    Matt I, Mar 20, 2010
    #5
  6. dale 88

    dale 88 Errand Boy for Rhythm

    Location:
    west of sun valley
    That was quite a ride. Thanks for the info. I do like that record,:thumbsup: as I said in the other Ellington thread:

     
    dale 88, Mar 21, 2010
    #6
  7. Urban Spaceman

    Urban Spaceman Forum Eulipion

    Location:
    Shawangunk Mountains, NY
    That was awesome! Thanks!
    -------- Chris
     
    Urban Spaceman, Mar 21, 2010
    #7
  8. Ere

    Ere Senior Member

    Location:
    The Silver Spring
    Very cool. Since the thread last month I've picked up a few choice 78s including 'Don't Get Around Much/Cotton Tail' (and, though not pre-war, the album featured in my avatar). They have a sound that transports you right to the studio.

    BTW, Steve, you mentioned you got one of KAB's Technic 1200s with the 78rpm modification: are you using the Shure M44 cart & green 78 stylus on that?
     
    Ere, Mar 21, 2010
    #8
  9. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    lukpac, Mar 21, 2010
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  10. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles


    I am, both the cart and needle are NOS I got on eBay for 40 bucks. Date of manufacture is around 1975. Best all-around 78 needle you can get and when you want to play 45's just slide in the N447..
     
    Steve Hoffman, Mar 21, 2010
    #10
  11. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    lukpac, Mar 21, 2010
    #11
  12. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Interesting that this Mills indie label was using acetate to record on in 1937, an inferior process at the time. Victor believed in soft beeswax up until the late 1940's. That "Victor Whistle" we hear near the end of many Victor jazz and blues recordings (especially territory bands and on the road stuff) is the wax cooling too fast and the cutter head reacting...
     
    Steve Hoffman, Mar 21, 2010
    #12
  13. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

    Location:
    .
    It's interesting that in some cases collectors with pay 50 times for original what one of these reissues will go for, but the record surface of the reissue, is better, making an all around better listening experience. Especially with Victor scrolls, those were often quite noisy, (at least in the twenties.)
    Victor went through a bad phase with the quality of their record material right around the time when a lot of this prime jazz and dance band music was being recorded, but they got better again in the 30's.

    Let's also not forget that George Avakian :angel: over at Columbia, was a real pioneer in going through the vaults and re-releasing this this kind of music, starting well before the recording ban, in about 1940. I don't think anyone had been doing that before, for jazz.
     
    Greg1954, Mar 21, 2010
    #13
  14. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    When Milton Gabler did the Brunswick reissue series, Gabler told me he was shocked that the plant couldn't find much of the metal. Lost or destroyed. What he could find was reissued on the Brunswick Jazz reissue series of 1943-44.
     
    Steve Hoffman, Mar 21, 2010
    #14
  15. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

    Location:
    .
    Here's one of the Brunswicks. with musicians listed, recording date, and pressed from original metal, good stuff to run across.

    Just don't anybody go looking for them around where I live, those are all for me.;)

    Untitled 1.jpg

    And I guess you could make the claim that Gabler's reissue program on Commodore predates what Avakian was doing, but not in scope or with the kind of distribution to reach the masses, like they had at Columbia.
     
    Greg1954, Mar 21, 2010
    #15
  16. MilesSmiles

    MilesSmiles Oenologist

    Location:
    Now reporting from the 305
    Very nice clip, many thks.
     
    MilesSmiles, Mar 21, 2010
    #16
  17. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    Location:
    Lexington, Massachusetts
    Great thread!

    I have some of those 1940s Brunswick reissue sets and they do indeed sound wonderful, with surprisingly little record noise.
     
    action pact, Mar 21, 2010
    #17
  18. DangerousKitchen

    DangerousKitchen Up in TO

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Very cool. I take it that's why the guy had to nudge it at the beginning to start it playing? I just watched and listened to it with my 2 year old and when it was over, she said "more choo-choo train?" She's very into Thomas the Tank engine.
     
    DangerousKitchen, Mar 21, 2010
    #18
  19. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    The massive tonearms of the past didn't need a "guide" to start a record. Their massive weight just pushed the arm towards the starting of the music. During the middle 1930s as arms got lighter, they needed a guide-in groove.
     
    Steve Hoffman, Mar 21, 2010
    #19
  20. kt66brooklyn

    kt66brooklyn Senior Member

    Location:
    brooklyn, ny
    Keep in mind that a number of these repressings from Victor (which actually started in the late 30's on the Bluebird label) feature alternate takes. So, there are a number of instances where these are the first ever commercial pressings of a particular take! Also keep an eye out for foreign pressings, they often feature still different takes.

    I have a number of these early 30's Victors on Canadian pressings, which were quieter than their southern contemporaries.
     
    kt66brooklyn, Mar 21, 2010
    #20
  21. kt66brooklyn

    kt66brooklyn Senior Member

    Location:
    brooklyn, ny
    All of the reissues with the names of musicians listed, starting in the late 30's, were pressed at the request of Milt Gabler when he sought stock for his Commodore record shop. He was one of a small group of enthusiasts in NYC who were repressing dubs of early jazz records. The success of those dubs led the majors to start repressing as well. Many of the other enthusiasts, like Avakian and the Ertegun brothers, went on to great success in the music business.
     
    kt66brooklyn, Mar 21, 2010
    #21
  22. Mike in OR

    Mike in OR Through Middle-earth...onto Heart of The Sunrise

    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    Nice Steve, thanks for the thread.
     
    Mike in OR, Mar 21, 2010
    #22
  23. Ryan

    Ryan That would be telling

    Location:
    New England
    Ryan, Mar 21, 2010
    #23
  24. ledsox

    ledsox Senior Member

    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    I love watching and hearing these old 78s spin on YT.
    That was one beautiful looking and sounding record. I'm tempted to get into 78 but I know finding copies like that would prove difficult. I'll start looking though as I love this era of jazz more and more.

    For now I'll put a vote in for Hoffman mastered vinyl of his classic 78s. :)
     
    ledsox, Mar 21, 2010
    #24
  25. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    It would be interesting to hear a proper dub of one of these. The fidelity in the video is pretty good, but something with that guy's system is very noisy before the needle even hits the record.
     
    lukpac, Mar 21, 2010
    #25
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