Dull Speakers Vs. Rolled-Off Highs?

Would someone please explain to me the exact difference between dull-sounding speakers and good-sounding speakers with rolled-off highs? I'm on the hunt for the latter because they offer a "warm" sound I like. But I want to avoid the dullness of the former (which I've found is typical with a lot of out-of-spec vintage speakers).

I'm currently using Pioneer HPM-100s, so I do like vintage.

I'm not saying I can't hear the difference between dull and rolled-off. I just want to understand better that which I'm hearing so that I can know what to look for in the future.

Thanks.

 

Truth be told, this is certainly a case of one man's meat being another's poison - the HD650 headphone is a classic example of this. You'll conversely read descriptions of them being warm/ romantic/ dull/ lacking detail/boring etc etc.

Really, it's about finding your speed and sticking with it. As ever, no right or wrong...

 

instead of the book which i was going to write, ill keep it short.

you NEED Energy RC-70s'

you will stop looking for speakers after you hear these. i wish these were still made as i would buy another pair. i can sit on the couch, play ANY music, and there is absolutely no searing treble / no molar grating / no uncomfortable listening, its a %110 pleasurable musical experience. the highs are rolled off i think 600 hz / or mghz / or whatever the lingo is. they ARE for people who really dislike the searing / high pitched treble of other speakers.

you may want to also check out Dynaudio which were my first choice, but they were over my budget.

check out the Energy's, you'll thank me later.



i like to play loud metal, punk, and rock. and these speakers saved virtually me wanting to not listen to music, as all my other speakers were so ,...just.....hard to sit and listen to without wanting to get up and switch songs, be edgy on the couch, feel antsy, you know the feeling i take it from wanting speakers which do NOT cause listener fatigue. I hated it! i heard the Energy speakers, and have not looked back since, they were about 150-200 hours of break in, and im in thrash metal rapture, i can turn it up loud, and actually relax, and jam to any metal/rock album i want without any fatigue whatsoever! enjoy

 

I think one must consider more than the treble voicing, and the tweeter. Having a hump or plateau in the bass area can contribute to 'warmth'. And, quite often, it's reticence in the upper mids (the 'presence' region), not the highs, which can give a speaker a laid-back, or warm, effect. Rolled-off highs can rob the sound of 'air', or make it seem dull.

 

yoou may want to try the CF-70's by Energy, im not super sure on their sound, but if they are like the RC line, you will save a buck. hope i helped......

 

You've got me intrigued here. I've started looking into these. Very good reviews online, and claims of "audiophile" status (even though they were made in China).

How much would you say I should pay for these now that they are an older style? Amazon has them at around $699 per speaker.

 

dude, wish you were closer, you could stop for a dram and have a listen.

699 is a bit high. shop around, im sure there are others still selling these.
check fry's if t hey still have any in stock. im pretty sure they are all out. they are out there........... searching is the fun part.


Look and ask around, maybe a local shop has a pair on the floor for listening. or try the CF-70's they may have a bit brighter presentation, but may be what your looking for.
IM not familiar with the CF line, so yoou would have to hear them in your own hone to be sure.......

 

as far as made in china, some of audios best is designed here, or Canada, and built in China, Malaysia or wherever to save a buck.
There is no difference.......your only issue will be getting a pair shipped, and arrival without damage. I wasted 4 pair before i received a pair which were not damaged. good ol' UPS sure can damage the goods.


good luck in your search. if your budget is higher, and you can afford them, look into Dynaudio, they are amazing speakers. unsure about their treble / highs, as it has been years since i heard the ones i was looking at.

im sure others will chime in shortly about which speakers are NOT hostile with the highs / treble.

 

It's often the upper midrange frequencies - 3 to 5 kHz (where our hearing is most sensitive) that are mistaken for the "highs." So you don't necessarily want a speaker that rolls off above 10 KHz. What you likely want is a speaker that has a natural dip in the upper midrange or at least measures flat through that region. If you download a spectrum analyzer app to your phone and run some pink noise through the speakers you can determine (approximately) where your speakers have frequency plateaus.

This is also somewhat dependent on the room and speaker placement. Brightness can often be tamed by simply reducing toe-in and treating first reflection points.

As for inherently warm speakers that still provide plenty of detail and clarity, I've found nothing that does this quite like Spendor's Classic series.

 

they look amazing,

 

I didn't realize less toe-in eliminates highs. I saw the Spendor Classic website. I'm afraid to look at the price, as I'm sure I can't afford them right now.

 

spenders look wicked, but like you, out of my range.....way outttt !

 

No idea whether these would fit your notion but, if I were specifically seeking speakers to avoid brightness and have a warm presence, I'd seek out a pair of Dynaco A25's. They're 'vintage', too (1970's), and go for thriftstore money.

 

Their vintage models sound excellent. A pair of 2/3es or 1/2s can be found for $1K or less. They can easily keep up with most modern designs. Ive been tempted to buy this pair:

Spendor SP1/2s in teak - price lowered!

The midrange on these models is as good or even better than some planars IMO.

 

Have you had a chance to compare the Dynaco speakers to the Pioneer HPM-100? That’s what I have now. They are gorgeous looking, but I find them a bit screechy depending on the vinyl source.

 

Can't say as I have. But given that the Pioneers were designed to compete with JBL L100's (supposedly), I'm guessing the Dynacos would be the more comfy listen.

 

Flat/transparent speakers may just reflect upper peaks in downstream equipment.

Beware as Helom said re the frequency rises in some designs - though measurements alone can be skewed - and toe-in/positioning and room variations etc can help.

Personally a fan of soft dome tweeters - seem the most natural IME.

Also, say with two speakers of identical high frequency output, the one with fuller low end output probably won't seem as bright by perception.

 

These are all great suggestions. I will continue to look into all of these speakers. However, I’m still interested in the question I posed in the opening. What is the difference (technically) between rolled-off and plain old dull? Because it seems to me that most dull speakers I’ve heard are also rolled-off. But there are clearly also rolled-off quality speakers as indicated by some of these suggestions. Where is the line?

 

There is none. "Dull" is a psychological perception. It's not a technical anything. Furthermore, what one person finds dull another person might not. Or what makes a speaker sound "dull" to one person may be different from what makes a speaker sound "dull" to another -- maybe for one person it has to do with frequency balance, maybe for another it may have to do with the handling of dynamics. But "dull" isn't a technical term or specification, it's a description of a subjective psychological response.

Furthermore, a warm frequency balance might come from a rolled off top, or it might come from from a boosted lower midrange, etc.

Then of course the room is going to play an enormous roll in what you hear, not just in the bass, where the room will dominate the sound, but also the treble. Amp/speaker impedance reactions could be a factor.

But forget trying to find a technical definition for a dull speaker, there's no such thing.

 

Find some ADS L-520 or L-710, they are vintage and compared to the Pioneers will be smoother and more balanced. There are more to choose from, larger and smaller than the two mentioned.

 

The Vandersteen 2 is worth a look.
Example: Vandersteen 2Ce Speakers with original stands and shipping boxes | eBay