Dumb question re: DACs

Currently, my record player, CD player and computer are hooked up to an older Onkyo 7.1 receiver. there is no HDMI on the receiver so the CD player is hooked in by an optical cable, turntable is hooked in by RCA cables and sadly, the computer (where I play my FLAC files from) is hooked by an RCA cable from the headphone jack to the receiver. it's not hooked in via the soundcard because the computer is cheap and the soundcard isn't great. so, i know my receiver has DACs built in but i feel like my computer's FLAC output doesn't sound as good as the CD player or vinyl. i'm guessing that's due to the single RCA cable. i was wondering if there would be any benefit in buying a DAC to go between the computer (USB output, I guess?) to the receiver. if so, would the benefit be coming from the DAC itself (given there is one in the receiver already) or would the benefit be coming from the fact that the audio is now going from USB to better cables to the receiver? or both?

anyway, my system isn't crazy like y'all and i have little knowledge of this stuff outside of playing everything in lossless quality, so please be gentle.

 

I was about to say you could begin with a simple USB-to-SPDIF converter to allow you to use one of the digital inputs on the Onkyo for your computer, but at this point good DACs are so cheap you wouldn't be saving much money over something like a Topping E30.

 

I have a Topping E30 (though for a laptop/headphone purpose, not hooked to a receiver) but if I were setting it up with your components and wanting to make a cheap effective switch, that is the way to go.

CD player optical cable out to the E30 DAC
Computer USB out into the E30 DAC (same USB as hooking up a printer so the square end goes into the DAC)
Turntable into the phono input (I assume you have one on the back of the Onkyo or else you'd be asking why you can't hear it through the AUX/line input)

Edit: The DAC goes into the receiver as well with the RCA red/white cables - Forgot to mention that

 

An Audioquest Dragonfly Red DAC sounds great out of a computer. As a plus, you can also use it with a iPhone or Android phone. They're running about $140 used on eBay. To make the sound even clearer, you can also add an Audioquest Jitterbug at about $40 used and $60 new.

Compared to other external DAC, the Dragonfly DACs (there's also a Black and a Cobalt version) plug right into a USB-A port and either a 3.5mm to RCA cable or headphones plug right in. Because it plugs right into a computer you don't need to spring for a USB cable as well.

 

AudioQuest DragonFly connects computer USB to your amp for your FLAC playing. You can also play CDs on the computer and out through the USB.

 

My only hesitation before getting the Dragonfly Red was that it didn't look or "feel" like a quality audio component as it looks like a USB stick, but the sound quality out of it is unbelievably good considering how portable it is. There are DACs that sound better for sure, but I recently used it for more serious listening when auditioning speakers. To ensure consistency in my source and amplification. I brought my amplifier and used my iPhone/Jitterbug/Dragonfly Red DAC as the source to audition $2,000 - 3,000 floorstanding speakers.

When listening to several speakers including the Monitor Audio Silver 300s that I eventually purchased, music coming out of my iPhone with that setup gave me that 'Holy crap, that sounds good' feeling. There have been plenty of $100k+ systems at dealers and shows that I've thought were impressive based on specific "audiophile" criteria, but really sounded very unmusical to me. The Dragonfly DACs are the opposite of those $100k systems in what it does. It's a pretty humble product, but sonically it is both enjoyable and eye-opening in what it can reveal.

As you can tell, I really LOVE my Dragonfly Red especially as I'm often working in different locations or traveling for work in addition to using it at home when working on the computer.

 

I'd agree with Krambigmac that a DAC would be worth it in your situation ....i use a JDS EL Dac via usb 2 AtoB out of my macbook air then from the DAC onto an Amp then speakers or headphones ..sounds much much better than running out of the apples headphone jack ..

 

thanks for the responses. i guess my question is how it deals with the DAC that is already in the receiver? override it? enhance it? why is the DAC in the receiver itself not enough? because it's coming through a simple RCA cable from the headphone output of the computer?

 

If you've connected phones out from PC to an analogue In on the receiver, it won't be going anywhere near the DAC in the receiver. It will be bypassing it.

 

Ideally, you may want to compare the sound quality out of an external DAC to the DAC in the receiver. The DAC in the receiver might not sound good as it could be built to hit a particular cost target or it may just not sound very good to your ears. That said, the sound output from an external DAC might also not be better than the DAC built into your receiver.

If you can't listen to something at a local dealer, I might suggest buying a DAC used (say via eBay) so you can then resell if it doesn't actually sound better to you.

The secret to choosing audio components is to trust your ears. If you think something sounds better or good enough to be worth your money, then it's good.

 

well someone was just saying that i'm likely bypassing the DAC in the receiver entirely.

 

i'm connected phones out from PC to the red and white "Video 3" Inputs on the receiver. obviously, this is a 7.1 receiver really built for surround sound, etc., which i don't use it for. dumb question, but how do i know if those Video 3 puts are analog or digital? basically, like you said, i'm trying to figure out if i am bypassing the DAC in the receiver itself. if so, then i definitely want to get a DAC.

 

It's late and I could be missing something, but a digital signal path to the Onkyo sounds like a good idea, if you're happy with the DAC in the Onkyo. A USB to S/PDIF converter, as noted previously, will do that. I'm use optical in to a receiver in one system and optical in to powered speakers in a couple of others, all from computers—although I haven't yet needed my USB to optical device. Outboard DAC or optical in, you're still going to improve the SQ. As to the "single cable": I think the greater issue is that the headphone jack is...well, a headphone jack. Pretty easy fix....good luck!

 

You've said you are using the headphone out connection from your computer. Headphones are analog devices (excepting perhaps a very few that are made to connect directly to a digital out--perhaps on a smartphone). It follows that the headphone out on your computer is sending out an analog signal. If you are hearing sensible output from your Onkyo while you are listening to PC files via your computer's headphone out socket, your computer audio is connected to analog input(s) on your Onkyo. Unless your Onkyo digitizes analog inputs (perhaps for speaker control), you are hearing your computer's built-in DAC and analog circuitry (unlikely to be terrific), and not your Onkyo's DAC. Yeah, your present computer file playback chain bypasses your Onkyo's digital circuitry.

If you want to use your Onkyo's DAC for computer sourced file playback, you'll have to use a digital output from the computer to a compatible digital input on your Onkyo.

Of course some very nice external DACs have been brought up in this thread. Using an external DAC between your computer and the Onkyo means you'd be using a digital out from your computer (USB quite likely, but there can be other possibilities) into the external DAC, which would need to feed into analog input on the Onkyo. Because the Onkyo would using analog input from the external DAC, the use of an external DAC bypasses any use of the Onkyo's own DAC.

Much of this others in this thread have said, I just thought I'd put my own take on a response.

 

1. You're using headphone out on the PC. That is analogue, no doubt. You can verify by connecting headphones to it. If you hear music, it is analogue, if you hear noise, it's digital. If you feeding this analogue signal to a digital input on your receiver, you will get nothing out of the receiver. You will only hear music if the input you're using is an analogue one.

2. Colour coding, and number of sockets. There are two, and they are coloured white and red, these correspond to Left and Right analogue inputs (remember Red for Right). If there is only one Video 3 socket, it is a digital input. Digital inputs are never separated into L and R.

3. The instruction or user manual for the unit will tell you this. Do you have one?

4. Why did you buy a 7.1 receiver when you don't use surround sound?

5. You don't need a DAC if you have one in the receiver. You need something which takes USB from the PC and converts it to optical or coaxial digital, such that it can be fed into a digital input on the receiver.

 

A good starting point to bypass the headphone output and the sound card is the Behringer UCA-202 or similar. Add any pair of RCA/phono cables and connect to Video 3, as you're doing at present.

 

Yes obviously. You said you're connecting the headphone out of your computer to an input of your receiver. The headphone output is analogue already, the digital to analogue conversion happens in the soundcard of your computer. A second digital to analogue stage is not needed and not possible. The receiver is internally wired so that incoming analogue signals do not go through the DAC.

The only way to use the DAC inside your receiver would be to feed it a digital signal from your computer. In that case you don't need to buy an outboard DAC, but you probably need some other electronic thingy to make it work. What sort of device would do that trick depends on what digital inputs your receiver offers. Could you tell us that, or alternatively tell us the exact model number of your receiver so we can google it.

 

The fact that it accepts an analogue signal from your computer's headphone output. Also the fact that there are two colour coded (red and white) inputs for the two stereo channels, which is typical for analogue. Digital audio is only one socket, even if the signal is stereo. Video3 likely has a third yellow socket for analogue video which you're not currently using. and possibly a multi-pin socket labelled "S-Video" which you're also not using.

 

So the signal chain is laptop > Jitterbug > Dragonfly > Aux input on hi-fi?

I wonder if their Cobalt doesn’t need the Jitterbug?

 

As mentioned, try an inexpensive usb->toslink converter such as:

Topping D10 (technically a dac, but also has toslink passthru)

StarTech USB Stereo Audio Adapter External Sound Card with toslink

Douk Audio U2 USB Converter XMOS XU208

What player software do you use on the pc?

 

I've listened to the Cobalt and preferred the slightly more punchy sound from the Red especially as I use the Dragonfly Red more for mobile use. The Cobalt is a bit smoother in its sound but the Cobalt and the Red sound more similar than different.

 

The Schiit Modi3 DAC is a great bargain and sounds great. $100 plus shipping.

 

just to answer some questions, this 7.1 receiver was given to me, so that's what i use.

also, i use foobar to play FLAC files on my computer.

it's this:

Onkyo TX-SR602 (Silver) Home theater receiver with Auto Speaker Setup and powered dual-room/dual-source audio at Crutchfield

back:

Onkyo TX-SR602 (Silver) Home theater receiver with Auto Speaker Setup and powered dual-room/dual-source audio at Crutchfield

so, my CD player goes to the optical port and i should be good to go there. as the like notes, there is no phono input, by my turntable is hooked into to small preamp, which is then hooked into the white/red tape inputs. finally, i am going out of the headphone jack from my computer (as you mentioned analog) into the white/red video 3 inputs for my computer, which i am understanding is analog from above.

so, now that this is all cleared up and everyone can see what my receiver looks like:
1. is the vinyl hook-up okay? i suppose it's analog to analog so obviously the DAC is not involved. sounds good to me.
2. it looks like my computer hook-up is analog to analog so it's bypassing the DAC. if i spend roughly $100 on a DAC, how does it hook. USB from the computer....which input should i use on the receiver and will i need a cable and if so, which one?

everyone has been so helpful BTW. thanks to everyone. i think once i figure out what DAC, where to hook it up and what cable i need to hook it up (and if it comes with one), i should be good to go!

 

also, how does this one rank?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LP3AMC...colid=UW8J12PI2PBS&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

could i use this for both my Sennheiser headphones and my receiver? if so, what type of cord do need to use and what input should i use on my receiver? thanks!

 

am i understanding that i can use my current RCA/phono cables connected to Video 3 and connect those to the DAC and have that work?